Decarboxylation through tea preparation

Papers broadly covering the Amanita genus.
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psychem
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Decarboxylation through tea preparation

Post by psychem » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:29 am

Not sure if this has been mentioned but this article:

Peng et al. 2006

Says: 'Years later, Nielsen and coworkers independently explored the nonenzymatic decarboxylation of ibotenic acid, reporting that 1 was stable in water even at 37°C overnight and only after its exposure to boiling water at pH extremes over the course of several hours was any decarboxylation to 2 noted'

Suggesting that preparation by making tea even with addition of lemon juice wouldn't decarb any of the ibotenic acid..?

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Re: Decarboxylation through tea preparation

Post by amanitadreamer » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:07 am

psychem wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:29 am
Not sure if this has been mentioned but this article:

Peng et al. 2006

Says: 'Years later, Nielsen and coworkers independently explored the nonenzymatic decarboxylation of ibotenic acid, reporting that 1 was stable in water even at 37°C overnight and only after its exposure to boiling water at pH extremes over the course of several hours was any decarboxylation to 2 noted'

Suggesting that preparation by making tea even with addition of lemon juice wouldn't decarb any of the ibotenic acid..?
The Austin Patent proved otherwise and is more recent.
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Re: Decarboxylation through tea preparation

Post by Donn » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:56 pm

psychem wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:29 am
this article
Were you able to read it? Can you provide an link to the accessible full text? It's always interesting to see more on this story. I'm not saying I'm competent to evaluate the full article, if I could see it, but I'm sure not without seeing it.

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Re: Decarboxylation through tea preparation

Post by psychem » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:02 pm

The link to the article is here:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... -200051704

However you need an institutional log in to access it, if you are unable to I can pm u the pdf as im not sure how to attach a pdf on here!

I believe this is the patent @amanitadreamer was refering to:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 4084A1.pdf
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Re: Decarboxylation through tea preparation

Post by researcher22 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:27 am

I read the patent paper and my understanding of the patent is different than the explanation I'm hearing in the videos entitled "Acid, pH and Amanita Mushroom" from 25-Sep-2019 which advocates using lemon juice for acid and the video entitled "How Ancestors Prepared Amanita For Ceremonies" from 24-Jun-2019 which advocates using boiling for heat.

These videos seem to present the idea that either of these work and specifically says the lemon juice is the best based on the patent. I do not see the patent testing either of these methods alone of acid or heat. I see it using heat and acid together or an enzyme.

My understanding of the patent is that there are three examples:

Example 1: Use a bacteria that can produce the glutamate decarboxylase etc.
Example 2: Boil between 195 degrees F to 212 degrees F for 3 hours at a ph of 2.6.
Example 3: Use Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase enzyme directly from a concentrated source etc.

The chart then shows three outcomes in the following order from left to right:

1. The control (Not one of the three examples)
2. Using Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase directly (Example 3)
3. Using Boiling water at a ph of 2.6 (Example 2)

So, Example 1 seems to be missing from Fig 1. completely, which is confusing. Also, the videos never seem to discuss the method exactly as performed in Example 2, which includes boiling water at a ph of 2.6.

I am not sure how the conclusion was reached that either boiling or using lemon juice by themselves was sufficient based on this patent, or otherwise. It could be experience, but I'm not seeing the consistency between this patent and what is being said in the video, which I'm finding confusing.

I appreciate your work to share this information. Could you please clarify, explain and bring some consistency to your explanations based on what I have outlined here?

Thank You

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