The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

The Ambrosia Society was created by Don Teeter as a result of his research into Amanita Muscaria. They came to some very interesting conclusions although some of their work related to what they called 'the fleece' was later shown to be erroneous.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by fantanyl » Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:16 pm

sry i had to splitt the post, because i wasnt able to post the other pics (maybe datalimit per post ?)

so here the fleece still floats haha
floatin 2.jpg
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and after one, two and three days it has already colonised a big part of the surface of the grape juice:
day 1.jpg
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day two.jpg
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day three.jpg
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day three 2.jpg
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EDIT: oh no just realized the last pic is upside down ! i´ll change that, when i post further updates !
Last edited by fantanyl on Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by fantanyl » Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:23 pm

of course there are holes at the top of the jars, covererd with micropore tape, so airchange is possible but nothing else (but i think a piece of cloth or something like that would be also fine, because its not sterile inside anyway)
the small ~0,5 L jar
the small ~0,5 L jar
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the big 5 L jar
the big 5 L jar
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with this method its much easyer to fully colonize a big surface than with onle a little scrape of spores, because its already good estlabished right at the beginning.
remember nothing of this is sterilized ! i dont even have the possibility to sterilize such a huge jar.
afterwards you can still add new sugar or juice, or pour of a bit of the ambrosia, fill juice in again and so on !
the first pic of the "already recycled fleece" in the little jar was processed like this, just pour of the ambrosia and fill in the new juice in the same jar, its super easy !
i´m thinking about buying a little steel fermenter like its used for brewing with a water tap (hope its the right word) on the bottom, to create a even more convinient system.
when its etablished you would only have to fill in some new juice from time to time and pouring some of the ambrosia off again would be so convenient !
like this:
fermenter.JPG
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the only problem with the big jars are the little fruit juice drops and water condensat on the side of the walls of the jars, they have to be removed from time to time or there is the possibility it gets a nasty smell a couple of days later !

the hole process of course works best in warm temperature and absolutly no light, wich are already known facts, but now i can definitly confirm this by my own experience, wich is always more worth than only theoretical knowledge.
it really gets a lot more thiccer and stays white and fluffy a longer time.

also remember there is the claim (in the book of the don) the grail gets stronger over time and life cycles, for this method this should be true, too, if the grail really gets stronger.

so the great journey of fleece experimentation has actually just started, i´ll try to protocoll the all the interesting or usefull things i found out here, so stay tuned !
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by lostmushroomforest » Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:39 pm

@fantanyl If there is acidification happening, there may already be lactobacillus present in the brew. It looks like there is a vinegar or kombucha culture growing with the fleece mold - so instead of a SCOBY (symbiotic culture of bacteria and yeasts) its a SCOMBY (symbiotic culture of mold, bacteria, and yeasts). Really unique culture. I will confess I am not fully read up on the fleece, but do we know from testing what actives are being produced by the mold? If it is not ibotenic acid or glutamate, it will not be decarboxylated by glutamate decarboxylase.

If you are thinking of using the culture to decarboxylate Amanitas, you will want to reduce the growth of yeast and increase the growth of Lactobacillus, since Saccaromyces Cerevisae has the ability to metabolize GABA/muscimol into energy. So less sugar, lower starting pH. I know the mold is eating some of the sugars, but you just want to be careful about yeast overgrowth. I can't guarantee this will work, but it would be interesting to combine the SOMABUCHA recipe with the fleece culture / acidified ambrosia replacing the kombucha SCOBY / starter tea. You could even continue using grape juice and just add concentrated Amanita tea, since that is what the culture is adapted to currently. Reuniting the fleece and the mushroom from which it originated...I wonder what will happen...

For reference, Lactobacillus Conversion Thread + SOMABUCHA recipe: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=712&start=10#top

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by fantanyl » Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:24 pm

lostmushroomforest wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:39 pm
@fantanyl If there is acidification happening, you may already have lactobacillus present in the brew. It looks like you have a vinegar or kombucha culture growing with the fleece mold - so instead of a SCOBY (symbiotic culture of bacteria and yeasts) you have a SCOMBY (symbiotic culture of mold, bacteria, and yeasts). Really unique culture. I am not fully read up on the fleece, but do we know from testing what actives are being produced by the mold? If it is not ibotenic acid or glutamate, it will not be decarboxylated by glutamate decarboxylase.

If you are thinking of using the culture to decarboxylate Amanitas, you will want to reduce the growth of yeast and increase the growth of Lactobacillus, since Saccaromyces Cerevisae has the ability to metabolize GABA/muscimol into energy. So less sugar, lower starting pH. I know the mold is eating some of the sugars, but you just want to be careful about yeast overgrowth. I can't guarantee this will work, but it would be interesting to combine the SOMABUCHA recipe with the fleece culture / acidified ambrosia replacing the kombucha SCOBY / starter tea. You could even continue using grape juice and just add concentrated Amanita tea, since that is what the culture is adapted to currently. Reuniting the fleece and the mushroom...

Lactobacillus Conversion Thread + SOMABUCHA recipe: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=712&start=10#top
Thanks for the fast reply @lostmushroomforest ! this is exactly the amount of motivation we need for this complex topic haha :D
i´m impressed by your knowledge about the microorganizms ! i definitly have to research deeper to fully understand what i´m actually growing :lol:
you said you are recognizing yeasts and bacteria in my brew just of the photos i posted, what are the signs for them ? they seem to be quite visually noticable for a trained eye :)
although this is quite faszinating that there are living a couple of organisms in symbiosis, this is in fact a problem and i obviously need to isolate them.
i thought about doing it on agar plates, do you have experience with this ? (i´m in this hole microorganism thing for not a very long time yet -> not thaat experienced in isolation)
Very interesting experiments you are posting in this thread you posted, didnt notice it yet ( viewtopic.php?f=5&t=712 )
i´ve read it quite carefully and understand now the problem of GABA/Muscimole consuming yeasts and its possible it becomes a problem for the fleece actives, too.
yeah, at the moment we dont really know what the actives of the fleece are, but they should be/act similar to ibotenic acid and muscimole (or even are ibotenic acid/muscimole)
i´d love to find this out, but i´m culturing it not that long yet, so i dont have the possibility to send an isolate for testing in a lab or something like this yet.
so finding out how the fleece actives are influenced by the Saccaromyces Cerevisae and the GAD of the lactobacillus could be a huge step forward in analysing the fleece!

At the moment i dont have the possibility to do exeriments with these cultures with the amanita, my last batch of amanita will hardly be enough for trying to isolate a second fleece strain, so with amanita experiments i have to wait until next mushroom hunting season (but i didnt have much success yet when it comes to quantity)
But yeah combining a good working fleece + lactobacillus culture of the right species/strain with the amanita could be the super soma hehe
I even already heard of good experiment results of combining the fleece with amanita (need to dig them up)
so maybe scomysomabucha :lol:

so my first next big target is definitly getting to know with the lactobacillus
Oriented on your thread about different lactobacillus species ( viewtopic.php?f=25&t=758 )
i searched for the strains you advised (lactobacillus acidophilus and lactobacillus brevis) and i only found lactobacillus brevis yet, but unfortunatly there arent any informations about the strain, just lactobacillus brevis. Any updates on your researches for the different species/strains ?
i´m planning to buy this culture, getting to know it a bit (how to cultivate it properly, keeping it etc)
yeah, and then further experiments are waiting for us my friend !
i´d love to see your future results on this topic !

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by EaglesNest » Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:07 pm

Lots of interesting ideas here, I’m not much of a chemist or alchemist and I already have too much going on so I’m happy to just be following your experimentations for now. :D I would maybe say that the fleece containing Ibotenic Acid and Muscimol perhaps doesn’t make complete sense, as since if that was the case then higher dosages should also result in stronger effects? I guess decarboxylation does seem to make a difference though. To add a biblical perspective, Christ seemed to do most of his teaching before his resurrection, not after. What exactly that would mean for the fleece I don’t know, but maybe we should be careful with letting expectations getting in the way. Though, Donald Teeter in his book did seem to insist that fleece should be gram for gram as potent as Amanita Muscaria caps, and that mixing it with water increases potency. I’m curious if anyone has heard of anyone that have found that to be the case? Also, the sacraments in Christianity is also always taken in a communion of the community coming together under the same purpose, reflecting on teachings that was handed down to us in scripture, singing, praying, fasting. It might seem trivial at first glance, but that would no doubt be part of the feeling of «something missing», as we have lost the essential element of a stable real-life community in which we can participate and have a meaningful place in a grounded hierarchy thats not corrupt and oppressing us, but actually wishes to lift us up.

Nonetheless the fleece is incredibly symbolically potent, being the resurrection of a magical plant that heals and teaches, and I believe understanding the symbolism is essential if we want to untangle all of this. The micro patterns that happen in chemistry reflect the macro patterns in nature, which reflect the psychological patterns in both our individual and collective psyche, ultimately reflecting the greater divine patterns of the «Heavens» and of the growth of our soul, the As Above so below. Seeing these patterns is seeing the «Hand of God» and His plan. Reality is not just a string of random meaningless events.

Regarding Alchemy, secrecy and esoteric knowledge, @Mcpato brought up some really important points. Just since this is a public forum and anyone can read this, I really want to hammer this home. I think it’s really important to distinguish that the true “truth” is not secret because it’s been intentionally hidden from us from the people who have it and wish to keep it to themselves, but because of the same reason that most everyone here don’t go out in public and tell people that they consume Amanita Muscaria. Obviously in most cases you would be ridiculed and labeled insane, and you don’t want the attention of the powers that be which could threaten your access to it. This is vital, because the first false “Gnostic” type of view will eventually lead you deep down a rabbit hole of absolute conspiratorial spiritual deception. This is not to say that there aren’t people with very real secret occult knowledge and powers that hide it for themselves, but seeking those kinds of powers is at best distracting you from the actual truth and in the worst cases extremely dangerous and hellish traps. I do sadly see a lot of spiritual deception in people who use psychedelics, and I recognize it because I went through it myself. The Church fathers, various Saints and many different wisdom traditions warn strongly about seeking spiritual experiences. Rather they say if we are on the true path then spiritual experiences will come and go when it’s the right time for us, but if we seek them for their own sake we will be distracted from the real truth.

@fantanyl regarding the sweating, I also have never experienced sweating or salivating from amanita or fleece even on high doses of what i assume was Ibotenic Acid. Thats not to imply I was somehow «pure», because I had quite a lot of «demons» or false beliefs and spiritual confusion that had taken me into some really bad paths in life and there was some years that were really dark and difficult. Much of this confusion I had was a result of drug use, even psychedelics most people classify as "good" like psilocybin and DMT. Only Amanita has ever given me a real sense of lasting clarity and stability.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:43 am

@fantanyl
I am SO amazed at your work!!!! Your method of reusing the "body" of the fleece is so perfect! I think this is the way I want to work when I begin again. Thank you for sharing the photos too. I love the idea of making a SCOMBY. I will try making the ambrosia as you have done, and for the lactobacilic cultures I will just use raw milk. When the milk separates and the cream floats to the top, I think the fleece will absolutely love that. The fleece and milk work well together and I do believe the live cultures will help decarb the ambrosia as well. This possibility is by far the most exciting yet! I'll try alternating between juice and milk, as well as try to mix the two together. I have a feeling this will taste absolutely delicious too...

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:39 pm

@EaglesNest
So many good points you've mentioned here, thank you for your insights and participation.
I agree that the fleece likely isn't ibotenic acid OR muscimol. The effect is different enough, yet similar enough I'm expecting it to be some sort of cousin chemical, most likely not identified. For that reason I'm less excited about getting it tested via conventional means, just for everyone to completely miss the point when it comes back as having NO ibotenic acid OR muscimol, as if that somehow "discredits" the fleece. No, the value is obvious to those willing to work with it, and it manifests as a spiritual value for most of us.

The sweating I experience was really only pronounced when I partook of the fleece in its raw state. The living bread was always consistent. The ambrosia form was always different for me. I preferred Raw form mostly for its simplicity, because it felt purifying to me, also it felt more "alive", but also I noticed my body also "reacted" or converted it to its "muscimol" variant. Especially noticable if I recycled my own urine for prolonging the effect.

Personally I never noticed the effects becoming more psilocybin-like with adding more water, but I know that I spoke with others who did experience it that way. There's room for me to experiment though!.

And thank you for elaborating in the nature of the secrecy around the greatest truths. The fact is I have learned a LOT of things that people would judge the hell out of me for, just because I'm investigating, let alone wanting to actually practice. The truly wise men and women of old were secretive exactly for the reasons you described. Its why they abandoned society to live alone in the wilderness. If people truly understood WHAT they were doing, without understanding the underlying WHY, they would absolutely bring down their own forms of judgement, hatred, up to and including murder. Labels such as insane or mentally ill... Yikes. Its not a joke. We live in a world where the insane are called wise and the wise are called insane. People are conditioned to absolutely despise some things, whereas those who learn the sacred sciences have to let go of those conditionings. For example, powerful substances can be Alchemically crafted from "disgusting" things like shit and piss, and in today's world, same as yesterday's world, people will clutch their pearls, and vilify you for even contemplating it, let alone working with it. How many people are looking at us here, even in this forum, judging us with disdain in their eyes for working with something so gross, TOXIC even as a mold? We are working just outside of the sphere of "acceptability" even with the fleece. And know what? They will always have their justifications for judging us, which gives them a sense of righteous indignation, and it will ALWAYS come out. This is why the secrecy exists. It is why the wise are silent. And why unless you can rid yourself of all your conditioning (I mean the metaphorical You, not YOU @EaglesNest ... 😆), it is impossible to know the greatest truths of this world. Even if they were given to you freely you would cast it out as trash, and you'd never even realize it.
Another way to look at it: When Adam and Eve partook of the fruit, they lost their innocence, not because they now understood good and evil, but because they now understood shame. And judgement. And they lost their innocence when they and their children judged each other as being shameful, first for their nakedness and later for any sort of deviation from the concensus reality. Is anything at all inherently evil in nakedness? Of course not. Yet you will be judged for nakedness, 100% of the time. As long as Truth is valued above all else, that truth will point to areas that make the individual uncomfortable because it will challenge their preconceptions. Its always been this way.

As far as combining the fleece and amanita, I've only heard 1 reference to it being done, by an Alchemist in the old ambrosia society's forums, (which wouldnt you know it is down again, otherwise I would copy and paste his words...) who claimed it was a super powerful combination, and to approach it very carefully. The Amanita is the Sun, the Fleece is the Moon, and in the proportions of 2/3rds fleece, to 1/3 amanita, they are combined and create a new thing, the Alchemical Marraige, resulting in the philosophical child. Now I have not tried it, but I've never forgotten it and may try eventually. This would be considered an alchemical work, absolutely.

Interesting take on why the feeling of "something missing" exists, and yeah I can definitely see that ritual use of the fleece within the context of a community could give it a new dimensionality that we aren't able to really investigate for now. Perhaps that will one day change? As for me, I took it to mean I had yet to unlock its potential, which led me towards Alchemy, so I could learn how to unlock it. Lololol time will tell!

Thank you everyone for engaging in this work, I feel inspired every time I see someone doing something new!
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by EaglesNest » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:07 am

Thank you! Apologies for the late reply.

I think there’s also a part of this that’s just a mystery which we’ll never be able to express with words without moving away from it, like the Divine Feminine or non-dualism. That the Fleece is a mold is interesting too, since Christ was both a king and a criminal. That’s an important part of the mystery of Christ and the resurrection. How the highest becomes the lowest, and the lowest becomes the highest. To have divine experiences from something lowly as a mushroom and a mold is strangely poetic. I think we’ve all known at least a small part of the mystery of the resurrection in our life when we’ve lost someone we love but became a better and stronger person from the horrible experience. All glory to God!

There’s a lot to think about in the story of Adam and Eve. When they took the fruit of knowledge they were tempted to take the knowledge they gained into their own hands and decide for themselves what were right and wrong. I don’t think that the Bible stories are some overly simplistic, heavy handed metaphor for mushroom use like how a lot of the famous and infamous authors seem to propose, but regularly consuming Amanita, asking the right questions with an open heart and paying careful attention to what life presents have been the way to go for me so far. Too often I catch myself making self-serving plans in the name of the good.

I understand what you mean regarding the testing. I’m ignorant of how exactly a lab analysis would be done, is it only affordable to look for specific chemicals, or can we get a full analysis of everything it contains? As I see it, the fleece is not taken very seriously as it is and there’s not really much to lose.

Hope everyone is having a good day.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by lostmushroomforest » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:36 pm

@Mcpato Really interesting to hear about the combination of Fleece/Ambrosia and Mushroom/Somabucha or Ambrosia. If I ever end up culturing the fleece it is something I will definitely try brewing and use with moderation and respect. SOMABUCHA is already very potent IME.

@fantanyl The pellicle that sits below the layer of mold is indicative of a SCOBY (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCOBY). Aside from the SCOBY indicating the presence of bacteria and yeasts, one of the main indicators can be smell - acidic smell means the bacteria are making organic acids, a bready/fruity/leathery smell can indicate the presence of yeasts. CO2 bubbles forming near the surface is another indicator of microbial activity.

I do not have much experience with working with agar, though the mold should be pretty easy to isolate, especially once it begins to sporulate.

My recommendation would be to keep the whole SCOMBY culture alive since it is a very unique one and I can see by looking at your pictures that is a healthy symbiotic culture. It will keep the culture more stable and producing consistently than the isolated mold by itself.

The good news is that if there is a SCOBY, there are Lactobacillus, so you already have some present in your SCOMBY. Based on my research, the best sources of Lactobacillus that are good decarboxylators are generally wild microbes from animals or plants. Raw milk is a good source as others have mentioned. Honey is also a good food for Lactobacillus, so you could try mixing some raw honey into your acidified Ambrosia and letting that sit, that way you will get dormant wild microbes from bees/flowers and feed the Lactobacillus already in your ambrosia.



RE: testing, I personally would love to see testing of both the mold microbes and what they produce, out of curiosity, but also to provide info about which molds make up the true fleece and which are contamination molds, potential toxicity/harm reduction, possible medication interactions, and ways to optimize the fermentation process to produce the most actives. Hoping w we will learn some day - learning more about the natural world if anything has made me more appreciative of life's beauty and mysteries.

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