Ambrosial Wine Experiments

The Ambrosia Society was created by Don Teeter as a result of his research into Amanita Muscaria. They came to some very interesting conclusions although some of their work related to what they called 'the fleece' was later shown to be erroneous.
User avatar
Splinters and Shards
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:25 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 115 times

Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Splinters and Shards » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:05 pm

I'm starting this thread to open up discussion on the Ambrosial wine of the Ambrosia Society and for our own experiments!

I love fermenting and have been (begrudgingly) not doing much lately because of how I feel about alcohol since starting on my Amanita journey. With some of the experiments (both intentional and non) of @Mcpato and @T36 both showing a possible new way of making Ambrosia, I've decided to at least experiment and get back into fermenting to do so.

I have 2 gallons of raspberry wine going now. I started them with yeast, so they may not produce anything beyond normal wine.
2 gallons of raspberry wine
2 gallons of raspberry wine
IMG_20191125_184606.jpg (752.8 KiB) Viewed 13349 times
I added some Amanita Muscaria var Perscina powder to them. We'll see if anything happens. The yeast may already be too established. I'm hoping to make a batch of banana wine tonight, only using the Amanita powder.
Amanita Muscaria Var Perscina powder
Amanita Muscaria Var Perscina powder
IMG_20191125_224629.jpg (841.31 KiB) Viewed 13349 times
Powder floating on top of wine.
Powder floating on top of wine.
IMG_20191125_225016.jpg (659.1 KiB) Viewed 13349 times
No guarantees, but I have my fingers crossed that this works! If anyone else has experience with traditional brewing, I would love to hear your input.

The idea is that if the fleece truly is a Mucor mold, it may have a yeast form that produces alcohol during fermentation (anaerobic respiration) along with other potential byproducts.


A Warning : since we are definitely dealing with mold-like growth and possibly a Mucor, keep in mind that many species of Mucor produce toxic (at least one is flesh-dissolving) byproducts. Even the Mucor we are trying to grow (fleece) may have toxic byproducts as well (possibly what causes ambrosia intoxication). I am willing to experiement, but please tread safely and know that this is all very speculative and untested. Thank you.

May the mushroom be with you all!
These users thanked the author Splinters and Shards for the post (total 3):
Amanita ResearchAquavitaeT36

Mcpato
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:08 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 154 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:52 pm

@Splinters and Shards very exciting! I can't wait to learn from all of our failures! Lol! I'm already anticipating potential contam from your ground percina, but if so, you can grow fleece spores from the ground powder in barley, and I'll bet it would be an intersting variation of the fleece! But then you'd have less starting contamination for your next experiment!

Also, Is this the place for grails as well??
These users thanked the author Mcpato for the post (total 2):
T36Imme

User avatar
Splinters and Shards
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:25 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 115 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Splinters and Shards » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:15 pm

@Mcpato I'm actually not expecting any moldy contaminants. Molds need oxygen to respirate and the jar should fill with CO2 once it gets going (that's why wild ferments in oxygen (acetobacter and lactobacillus to make vinegar (acetic acid) and lactic acid) can get moldy while anaerobic wild ferments (any sort of wine, cider, perry, or gruit without a yeast starter) rarely do.

I'm expecting wild yeasts and some bacteria from the Amanita. If it tastes good I'll keep running with them. If they taste bad I'll try something else, maybe doing a bread to select out the right mold. My main inspiration here is that fermentation is really just digestion. Just as I personally eat the mushrooms, I want to start these experiments by feeding these mushrooms to the ferment. There may even be non dimorphic yeasts present in the mushrooms that are beneficial.

Besides, I'm planning to do quite a bit of fermentation so using selectively grown fleece is on the to do list. And in any case, I never have failed ferments. I just sometimes end up with more vinegar than expected. Hahahah! :mrgreen:

As for grails, I'm cool with them being here. If the thread gets too busy, we can always make a new one or have the mods port it over to a new one. Excited to see what we come up with!
These users thanked the author Splinters and Shards for the post:
Mcpato

Mcpato
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:08 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 154 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:42 pm

Splinters and Shards wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:15 pm
@Mcpato I'm actually not expecting any moldy contaminants. Molds need oxygen to respirate and the jar should fill with CO2 once it gets going (that's why wild ferments in oxygen (acetobacter and lactobacillus to make vinegar (acetic acid) and lactic acid) can get moldy while anaerobic wild ferments (any sort of wine, cider, perry, or gruit without a yeast starter) rarely do.
I think I've heard this before, but thank you for the clarification! Keep us up to date on it!
I'm expecting wild yeasts and some bacteria from the Amanita. If it tastes good I'll keep running with them. If they taste bad I'll try something else, maybe doing a bread to select out the right mold. My main inspiration here is that fermentation is really just digestion. Just as I personally eat the mushrooms, I want to start these experiments by feeding these mushrooms to the ferment. There may even be non dimorphic yeasts present in the mushrooms that are beneficial.

Besides, I'm planning to do quite a bit of fermentation so using selectively grown fleece is on the to do list. And in any case, I never have failed ferments. I just sometimes end up with more vinegar than expected. Hahahah! :mrgreen:
This is absolutely the right way to go! We're playing in a playground with no rules, only because we're the first to play the game! No failures, just lessons!
As for grails, I'm cool with them being here. If the thread gets too busy, we can always make a new one or have the mods port it over to a new one. Excited to see what we come up with!
Awesome! I'm really looking forward to seeing more!
These users thanked the author Mcpato for the post:
T36

Mcpato
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:08 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 154 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:28 am

Hmm i cant seem to show photos because it says the board quota has been filled... ???

Anyways, i have my "wild yeast" spontaneous tomato sauce grail that had pretty close to finished fermenting. There was no floating fleece on top, but there was a thin white waxy film on top. Probably scary contam. Anyways, I Today I drank about 12-16 oz worth of the ethanol laden juice. It was a strong ethanol taste, and still fizzy. Once the alcohol wore off, I'm not sure, but I have felt a slight ibotenic acid continuance of effect, which I didn't notice until the alcohol buzz wore off. Basically like a mild stoned feel. I already don't love alcohol, but it was not too bad.

I also wanted to show my reverse grail, the fleece is growing nicely on the dowels, and I soaked it for the 2nd time yesterday for 4 hours. The only real downside of the reverse grail is the dowels want to float on top of the juice. This can be remedied by using something to push them down, but I didn't, I just shook it a bit to coat in juice and it did soak well enough.

Lastly I wanted to show my anaerobic by-use-of-olive-oil-on-top pineapple wine, which doesn't appear to be fermenting as of yet.

User avatar
Splinters and Shards
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:25 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 115 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Splinters and Shards » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:46 am

@Mcpato I don't think the film was contam. Sounds more like a mother/scoby forming. If it was actively fizzy, then the CO2 was forming a blanket over the top which would keep contaminants from growing. This is how open vat brewing works and how brewing wine and beer has been done for millennia.

I'm starting to feel that the point is not the psychoactive effects of the wine itself but of establishing the fleece within. The psychoactive effects are just a bonus and a way to up the fleece and assist in times of need or injury.

I get spontaneously fleece drunk (more like a very pleasant and functional high) regularly now and it is fantastic. Plus it adapts to my situation! If I need to focus, it just feels like a calm pain and anxiety-free mood boost. If I'm vegging on the couch or in bed, it's a strong vibrational body high with feelings of ecstatic joy and love very similar to other types of mushrooms. If I close my eyes and just let go, I am usually rewarded with strong visuals of fractal patterns or vortexes/wormholes through space.

Keep in mind this may just all be in my head (though these types of experiences are always "in the head") but having experienced many psychoactives and psychedelics, this feels like the real deal. The best part is that I don't have to drink, smoke, eat, apply, or do anything external to bring on effects.

I really want to see your experiments! I tried posting pictures of my banana wine, but I got the same message too. Did we break the forum? XD

I think we may have hit the picture quota for the forum. We might have to host our pictures on a third party site and link them over. As for the reverse Grail floating, that sounds like a good thing if you are using an airlock (lots of ways to improvise one. A rubber glove over the top with a small slit in one finger works pretty well. Plus it looks like your ferment is waving hi!).

I'm hoping to get some fleece growth soon. I cooked some lentils and mixed them with AM powder last night. Wanted to post pics but got that message. This is exciting stuff!
These users thanked the author Splinters and Shards for the post:
Mcpato

Mcpato
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:08 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 154 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:23 pm

Splinters and Shards wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:46 am
I'm starting to feel that the point is not the psychoactive effects of the wine itself but of establishing the fleece within. The psychoactive effects are just a bonus and a way to up the fleece and assist in times of need or injury.
to that end I drank most of my fizzy spontaneous grail last night. I wish I could know when or if I'm going about this the right way to make it take root. I've eaten a lot of raw fleece and consumed many spores by this point. Do you think our immune system prevents it? I feel like the fleece works with our immune system, not against... But idk...
I get spontaneously fleece drunk (more like a very pleasant and functional high) regularly now and it is fantastic. Plus it adapts to my situation! If I need to focus, it just feels like a calm pain and anxiety-free mood boost. If I'm vegging on the couch or in bed, it's a strong vibrational body high with feelings of ecstatic joy and love very similar to other types of mushrooms. If I close my eyes and just let go, I am usually rewarded with strong visuals of fractal patterns or vortexes/wormholes through space.
ok I wondered exactly what you meant by spontaneous intoxication. It sounds lovely, and like jts worthy of pursuit!
Keep in mind this may just all be in my head (though these types of experiences are always "in the head") but having experienced many psychoactives and psychedelics, this feels like the real deal. The best part is that I don't have to drink, smoke, eat, apply, or do anything external to bring on effects.
at my awakening, I had a similar experience, and I wasnt using any drugs. This just co firms in my mind that I'm headed in the right direction, and to keep at it until it does take root.
I really want to see your experiments! I tried posting pictures of my banana wine, but I got the same message too. Did we break the forum? XD

I think we may have hit the picture quota for the forum. We might have to host our pictures on a third party site and link them over. As for the reverse Grail floating, that sounds like a good thing if you are using an airlock (lots of ways to improvise one. A rubber glove over the top with a small slit in one finger works pretty well. Plus it looks like your ferment is waving hi!).

I'm hoping to get some fleece growth soon. I cooked some lentils and mixed them with AM powder last night. Wanted to post pics but got that message. This is exciting stuff!
Ok I'll have to learn how to use 3rd part sites for this. Yeah I think we did break the forum! Lol.
I know I've seen yeast chains forming in my ambrosia experiments before. I just figured they were regular mycelium, but I did wonder about the lack of oxygen... If I find any forming I'll try and show you those too! Good luck with your lentils!

User avatar
Splinters and Shards
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:25 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 115 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Splinters and Shards » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:06 pm

@Mcpato I think a post of preparing the body for the fleece is in order. I feel like the long mushroom fasts (only Amanitas extracted in cold water) I did really helped get the fleece established. The fleece ia agressive and can take over other contaminants if they are not well established or not well-fed. I think you are well on your way, but you may need to do a re-cleanse to get rid of any contaminants that are well established within you.

Your body is not a sterilized fermenting bucket. It's more like a terracotta fermenting crock. In many cultures it was considered better to throw away a clay pot that harbors mold than to clean it. If you don't want to kick the crock (so to speak) then the name of the game is starve and replace.

Starve the current residents of their nutrition. Since most contaminants require sugar for their growth, replace sugar and starches with fat or nothing at all (catabolising your own body fat will work for this). Next you replace the contaminants with spores and living cultures of what you want. Once the contamination is starved and cleansed (lots of detox methods out there, pick your favorite) you can begin to feed the new culture.

I didn't feel the effects of the fleece until after I started eating after a week long mushroom fast. And even then I started slow and with foods high in fat. The effects of the fleece came on slowly but noticeably, mostly in the rejection of long-standing infections (foot fungus, cold sores, recurringly infected puncture wounds and burns).

The spontaneous intoxication started off sporadically, but after a year it is now very much a part of my daily life. I love it! Anything else I have taken feels great and then the effects fade with tolerance. If anything, the effect of the fleece feels stronger every month. It also seems to increase and decrease with the lunar cycles. I'm excited to have another fellow experimenter with the fleece so we can compare notes!


(Moderators, feel free to remove this last part of you feel it does not fit here.)

For anybody looking for a good fasting and dietary guide, read the Essene Gospel of Peace. It has very good, practical advice for cultivating the fleece and ridding the body of parasites (fungal, bacterial, animal). Here's a link! http://essene.com/GospelOfPeace/peace1.html Keep in mind this book does not talk about mushrooms or fleece directly and may not be compatible with many religions. I view it as a practical tool, and use the Amanitas and fleece (in cold tea or tincture form) for all of the proscribed fasting periods (initial cleanse and weekly).
These users thanked the author Splinters and Shards for the post:
Mcpato

User avatar
T36
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:44 pm
Location: Here, there, im everywhere;D
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by T36 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:32 am

Here is my day old ambrosia started with spores from my glass grail)) didnt have enough juice or a small bottle to make the airless ambrosia

Image

Forums own image upload sys broke for me 3 days ago so i use imgbb.com now))) dont copy the links it gives you they dont seem to work just open the image u uploaded and copy the browser link
Here is how it looks when posting here:

Code: Select all

     
[img]   https://i.ibb.co/6wRzmT1/20191128-163705.jpg  [/img]
  
These users thanked the author T36 for the post (total 2):
Splinters and ShardsMcpato

Mcpato
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:08 pm
Location: Spokane, WA
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 154 times

Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:35 am

Looks great! Good luck!
I've noticed in my anaerobic ambrosia experiments my spores have not awakened from their dormancy at all! I'm wondering if perhaps the spores must awaken in an oxygen environment first, and then change to a yeast stage after already growing. What do you guys think? (I'll try to play with uploading pics when I have more time!) Thanks!

Post Reply