Ambrosial Wine Experiments

The Ambrosia Society was created by Don Teeter as a result of his research into Amanita Muscaria. They came to some very interesting conclusions although some of their work related to what they called 'the fleece' was later shown to be erroneous.
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Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:02 am

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Behold! A warrior's drink! This is ambrosia grown with PRUNE JUICE. A week ago or so ago I dropped muscaria fleece spores on top of the juice, and NOTHING HAPPENED! Or so I thought! I wondered if the spores sank and began growing under the surface, but PRUNE juice (being a warrior's drink and all, lol [any Star Trek TNG fans get the reference?]) obscures vision to see that very clearly. 2 days ago some mycelium popped out! I find it fascinating how this fleece works, growing both with and without oxygen, it has really spread quickly, and I imagine it will be done in another week or two! This will be my largest ambrosia batch I've made (if it turns out of course). The strongest small batches I've made actually had very little fleece growing on top, but lots of under juice. The one I'm thinking of was orange juice and I had thought it had gone bad for turning into vinegar. That vinegar was actually what I believe was ibotenic acid. It was VERY acidic. A drop on the skin was enough to alter consciousness. Anyways, I hope it works!
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Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by crikeycrikeys » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:46 pm

RE | McPato

Are you serious, is that muscaria mycelium in the prune juice? Not like some sort of mold? If the mycelium can be grown, would it theoretically have the same effects as the caps?
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Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:18 pm

@crikeycrikeys

This IS a mold my friend! The most curious thing about amanitas is that you can "resurrect" a fleecy mold from it that DOES have psychoactives contained in it. This whole thread is dedicated to the cultivation of this mold on liquid mediums. The other cultivation thread is more for solid mediums like grains. This is cutting edge stuff with much more investigation needing to be done. Check out the Ambrosia Society for more info on the potentially ancient historical usage of this mold, but truly, we do not know for certain. It is compelling enough for me that I have become very passionate about this endeavor, but ymmv. Feel free to ask any questions you may have!
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Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by crikeycrikeys » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:06 am

Really sounds like the cutting edge! I had never even heard of such a thing. One other cutting edge thing I read in a mushroom encyclopedia said that there were calocybe and inocybe species that contain far more muscimol than A. muscaria, but based on some cursory searching looks like this may have been a typo and they were referring to muscarine... If there was a saprotrophic muscimol shroom that would be great for people with limited access to muscaria...
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Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:13 pm

Update on my pineapple anaerobic ambrosial experiment! Mycelial mass keeps growing under the juice. Carbon bubbles slowly form within the mycelium, and this mass finally floated up even past the oil. It had been hanging out in the middle of the bottle until today.
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Still no smell of alcohol when I release carbonation pressure. Just a nice fruity smell. Perhaps this fungus does not produce ethanol even sans oxygen?
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The very bottom is composed mostly of the pinapple juice sediment colonized by mycelium (I think, it looks like mycelium down there...) Any idea when I will know when this is done? When carbonation stops? 1 year? Lol I'm really wanting to decarb this...
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Anaerobic ambrosia FTW!

Post by Mcpato » Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:14 pm

Last night I decarbed my anaerobic ambrosia, as well as my warrior's (prune) ambrosia. A while ago I had noticed some green mold forming on top of the olive oil (on a stray piece of something) but I believe this was before the mycelium had started poking through it, but the lack of oxygen seems to have killed it and it was for all intents and purposes contam free! I will from now primarily do anaerobic ambrosia! I recommend everyone else trying it out too! I think it is a lot slower, but man is it convinient to not have to worry about contam nearly as much! So that bottle was roughly 2 months of culturing. My theory is if I had shaken it a lot more or used something like a glass marble inside the container or even a magnetic stiring system it would culture the fluid much more quickly!

@Splinters and Shards I have confirmed that the anaerobic fleece growth did not actually produce alcohol, but rather the regular fleece metabolite (possibily ibotenic acid), and carbon dioxide. This is a rather huge breakthrough considering no one else has figured this out! The layer of oil on top may or may not have helped at all, I know the mycelium eventually floated up through it, but would the fleece have grown on top at all? Idk! I'll find out soon enough!

My prune experiment had started to ferment with yeast, but the sugar was basically all used up so it wasn't too alcoholic. I decarbed my pineapple juice at the 170°-190° F range on my stove. It worked great! Then I decided to simmer the prune ambrosia for it's decarb process, based on something @amanitadreamer said the other day, how the actives wont be destroyed in a boiling solution. Thank you for that, it worked great! Theoretically I can see creating thick ambrosia syrups instead of just juices that take up a lot more space! Then I can dilute with lots of water, it should work well! Both ended up as fairly strong ambrosial drinks, and were very worth it! It is so hard to describe the intoxication they bring as well... For future experiments I'm considering soaking actual amanita mushroons in the ambrosia. I feel like they must compliment eachother... Like maybe they aren't complete by themselves or something.
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Pantherina vs muscaria fleece

Post by Mcpato » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:39 pm

I just wanted to follow up with everything so far. Just about everything I've tried "works" in that I am getting the typical effects no matter if its done anaerobically, or with oxygen growing the fleece. The issue that is pressing me the most is "potentiation". To experiment further with this idea, I have started a "jar of perpetual potentiation" into which I put living bread and liquid (I've used vinegar, homemade wine, even just plain juice, with zero regard for taste! Lol) and I never let it get too low. The idea is to let the active constituents leak out i to the liquid and discard the bread after it has soaked for a while. It is definitely more potent today than when I started. I'm hoping that it continues to potentiate. Obviously I will post here its progress.

I have also started another experiment that I think should turn out interesting results. The "strongest" ambrosial fluid I've made yet was done accidentally using a small amount of orange juice that I thought had turned to vinegar, but was actually really potent stuff! Probably ibotenic acid rather than acetic acid! Who knows, I'm just an amateur!! But i used a few drops of that stuff externally and it was definitely potent! Anyways i have a large container of orange juice that I added a lot of simple sugar syrup to ferment anaerobically with the fleece! It appears to be growing well. My hope is it will be stronger even than my last orange juice experiment.

Now I have been growing both muscaria and pantherina fleece side by side. To be perfectly honest they are basically indistinguishable from each other. Both in appearance and in effects. They are both about as potent as the other, but there is a difference I can feel, and that is the liver/kidney "soreness" that I feel after consuming the pantherina fleece. It isnt too bad but the next day it is obviously there, and It is the same as what I've felt when consuming small doses of pantherina mushrooms. I'm not done working with the panther fleece, not by a long shot, but I definitely will focus more on the muscaria fleece since it has an absence of whatever chemical is harder on the kidneys.

Oh! This is interesting... I decided to try using plain 'ol brown rice for my living bread, and after the fleece had grown out I tasted it, and OMG it was abnormally sweet! I did not add any sugar which I sometimes do, but the fleece usually LOVES added sugar. I've learned that rice can sometimes naturally contain a fungus called Aspergillus oryzae which basically converts the carbohydrates of the rice into simple sugar. This has been utilized industrially for making the alcohol Saké, as well as making miso paste and even soy sauce. They call this fungus Koji. Now this is very interesting because the fleece seems to thrive alongside the koji and it has been making me very curious, how much better off am I using this koji alongside my fleece in EVERYTHING!? Maybe we've been neglecting a very obvious way of increasing production by pairing fungi that can benefit eachother! The koji doesnt eat sugar, it eats the more complex carbohydrates which I'm sure the fleece is more than happy to allow in exchange for the simpler sugars. This has been circulating in my mind for a while, and now I'm curious if it also provides additional contamination resistance. Perhaps we can pair multiple fungi together that can be very contamination resistant, and also provide us with products in a much more approachable way than we currently have. One drawback to getting into mushroom cultivation is the emphasis on using sterilized equipment and spaces, which can be very difficult, and yet none of that exists in nature, yet the mushrooms thrive anyways. I'm starting to wonder if there are ways to cultivate fungi symbiotically, as in multiple species together. My fleece with the koji seems to be still thriving. I had 2 jars, one I used, and the other i let to continue its cultivation. I'm wondering if I've unlocked something wonderful here! Usually by now the fleece would have used up most of the available nutrition, it has grown even more dense and still seems to be thriving. I will check it soon, but i just wanted to share with everyone. I would love it if I could use this approach to cultivate mushrooms in non-sterile environments!

Followup edit:
The 2nd brown rice experiment did NOT have any of the koji present with the fleece, and i think i want to cultivate with brown rice much more often until I can get another spontaneous pairing of these fungi, so I van experiment further. I remember reading how Don Teeter strongly advised against using rice to cultivate because it has a native green mold present on the grain when you buy it. I'm pretty sure that native fungi is the koji, so I'll take it as a gift from the universe instead. If there's any doubt just taste it! Lol
Last edited by Mcpato on Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Nightbears » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:13 am

I recently saw this video about making a small bioreactor. Was definitely not watching to further my knowledge of mycology. But it sounds like this bioreactor could be used to make a constant growth of ambrosial wine or at least keep a live liquid culture on hand. What do you guys think? I don't currently have the means of starting any scientific study in amanita, but I would love to further anyone else's path.

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Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Mcpato » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:11 pm

Maybe one day I will make a serious attempt at this bioreactor... It seems like the ideal system honestly. I know that bioreactors are used on a massive scale for producing fungi mycelium already. Taking the resulting fluid and concentrating it via evaporation is probably the very best way to concentrate it... I wish I were more handy! Lol. Thank you for sharing this wonderful idea!

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Re: Ambrosial Wine Experiments

Post by Nightbears » Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:26 pm

I would love to help develope a way to easily let anyone cultivate this fleece.

Does anyone have any pictures of impregnated cups? When I read about it in Teeter's book I was really interested in making a cup that could be fed and brought back indefinitely. What I want to do is set up a clean room and have a multistage setup where I can try an assortment of different kinds of vessels.

Anyone try impregnatings a peice of wood like the way Teeter explains in some of the soma recipes? I love would love to know any results of an ambrosial preparation that includes a fleece filtration.

I watched a poignant video about the cultivation of psilocybin that incorporated positive emotions and positive music. The results were quite interesting in that a person said they were almost unable to make a batch grow with constant anger and negative emotions. Sense amanita is another fungi that gives insite and wisdom, I would assume that it would be worth doing the same. The thought of loving and singing an amanita fruit body into existence sounds perfect lol

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