Splinters and Shards wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:15 am
I agree with everything that had been said so far and would like to add my own personal experiences to the discussion. I agree that the fleece has been determined to be primarily a mucor, possibly more than one species.
I have personally experimented with drinking liquid that has been sitting in a terracotta cup with the mold growing in it (the grail) and grape juice with the mold grown on top (ambrosial wine). Both have similar effects to water and juice extractions of various Amanitas.
I have noticed (especially with the cups) that drinking more water changes the effects. While Teeter addresses this, his explanation is focused on muscimol/ibotenic acid. I have not found similar effects with any Amanita extraction. I have experienced food poisoning from an unknown mold in the past that produced similar effects when large amounts of water was consumed.
I would not be surprised if further study finds that there is no muscimol or ibotenic acid present. It is quite possible there is another, perhaps similar, chemical produced by this fungus (or collection of fungi) that has similar effects. The unusual effects, which I would say is very similar to psilocybin, have happened to me with another mold. There are many molds and smuts that have potentially caused or influenced hallucinatory effects in people that have required hospitalization.
I think it more likely that there is a mold or molds that grow on or in Amanita Muscaria and similar species with their own unique constituent(s) that result in intoxication similar to the mushrooms. It may even work on the same receptors but with different effects, just as both Anandamide and Delta 9 Tetrahydrocannabinol both work on the same receptor but with different effects. Psilocybin itself does different things at the receptor site than the endogenous ligand.
I am not a research scientist or mycologist, just someone who is very interested in all of this and its implications for the benefit of humanity. These are all my own opinions based on my own experiences. I would just like to point out that instead of looking for Amanita constituents only, that perhaps there are unknown and unnamed constituents that could be discovered in these mold cultures. They may be chemically similar, they may be completely different. They may even work at different receptor sites.
Even the puffballs Lycoperdon Marginata and Mixtecorum have been reported to cause auditory hallucinations and there is no known, detectable constituent that causes this. I myself have experienced auditory hallucinations after eating Lycoperdon Marginata in large amounts. Current tests and methods of analysis may not be able to identify the actives in the fleece. I will continue to do my own personal experimentation and hope that this does come under serious scrutiny and further research.
Thank you for keeping this discussion on-topic and very informative! I hope this helps!