The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

The Ambrosia Society was created by Don Teeter as a result of his research into Amanita Muscaria. They came to some very interesting conclusions although some of their work related to what they called 'the fleece' was later shown to be erroneous.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:06 pm

@amanitadreamer
I'm afraid if there is a record of the scientific evaluation of the fleece it is for all intents and purposes lost to time. I've read about there actually being test results out there in forums like this one:
http://entheogen-network.com/forums/vie ... =31&t=7417
This is a long thread with a lot of back and forth arguments. The main problem, from what I have gathered, was that originally the Ambrosia Society adamantly claimed that the fleece was true Amanita Muscaria mycelium. A mycologist in the thread basically calls this bs, since AM mycelium can't be grown on top of grape juice, AND Its spore print is white. Fleece spores are black and grows quickly on grape juice. Then he claimed that the fleece's characteristics match most closely to that of some species of mucor. This is where the idea of the fleece being a mucor comes from. Teeter rejected the idea of the fleece being a mold, and it seems to me that this divided the community, since it really did appear that Teeter was denying the science. Throw in the fears associated with toxic mucors causing mucormycosis, then the subsequent death of Teeter, any momentum the ambrosia society had is gone.
In the ambrosia society forums I believe Teeter mentioned having a copy of lab results as well but if he ever posted them, again, I haven't been able to find them. It doesnt help that the ambrosia society is basically dead now. I can attest that the fleece, whatever the heck it is, has at least been safe to consume in any quantity I've tried, both cooked or raw. I feel like we've barely scratched the surface on what is possible with the fleece, and it would truly be a shame if the fleece fell away from our collective comsciousness, so I'll keep playing with it, and hopefully learn all its secrets! Lol!
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by amanitadreamer » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:12 pm

Mcpato wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:06 pm
@amanitadreamer
I'm afraid if there is a record of the scientific evaluation of the fleece it is for all intents and purposes lost to time. I've read about there actually being test results out there in forums like this one:
http://entheogen-network.com/forums/vie ... =31&t=7417
This is a long thread with a lot of back and forth arguments. The main problem, from what I have gathered, was that originally the Ambrosia Society adamantly claimed that the fleece was true Amanita Muscaria mycelium. A mycologist in the thread basically calls this bs, since AM mycelium can't be grown on top of grape juice, AND Its spore print is white. Fleece spores are black and grows quickly on grape juice. Then he claimed that the fleece's characteristics match most closely to that of some species of mucor. This is where the idea of the fleece being a mucor comes from. Teeter rejected the idea of the fleece being a mold, and it seems to me that this divided the community, since it really did appear that Teeter was denying the science. Throw in the fears associated with toxic mucors causing mucormycosis, then the subsequent death of Teeter, any momentum the ambrosia society had is gone.
In the ambrosia society forums I believe Teeter mentioned having a copy of lab results as well but if he ever posted them, again, I haven't been able to find them. It doesnt help that the ambrosia society is basically dead now. I can attest that the fleece, whatever the heck it is, has at least been safe to consume in any quantity I've tried, both cooked or raw. I feel like we've barely scratched the surface on what is possible with the fleece, and it would truly be a shame if the fleece fell away from our collective comsciousness, so I'll keep playing with it, and hopefully learn all its secrets! Lol!
I am more of a skeptic but I really hope you do keep me up to speed on what you learn with it. I read that entire long thread on entheogen network and thanks for all the help with this. I am about to make a video on growing and needed to exhaust whatever I could find. I am also going to find someone who will test for me. I just need to grow the mold. Can I do it with a dried cap? I haven't grown anything so we shall see. Maybe I can find a chemistry professor willing to go on camera, grow in a lab condition and work with me on it.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:11 pm

amanitadreamer wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:12 pm

I am more of a skeptic but I really hope you do keep me up to speed on what you learn with it. I read that entire long thread on entheogen network and thanks for all the help with this. I am about to make a video on growing and needed to exhaust whatever I could find. I am also going to find someone who will test for me. I just need to grow the mold. Can I do it with a dried cap? I haven't grown anything so we shall see. Maybe I can find a chemistry professor willing to go on camera, grow in a lab condition and work with me on it.
You are just the kind of person who is able bring this to a wider audience, and give it the exposure it deserves! Of course I will help you in any way that I can! I have learned a few things on my own about the fleece that are the result of experimentation which I'm happy to share with you as well. I've tried to document my major experiments on this forum under the ambrosia society sections... I show how to start the fleece and have given pointers to others which have led to some success. I've failed a ton with this, which means I've learned a lot of ways to not do it. Lol!

To answer your question, yes you can use dried caps, you can also use the dried stem. If you use caps that dried with high heat you will likely have a more difficult time getting the fleece to emerge however. It literally took me a full year of weekly attempts before I somehow managed to get a sample of fleece, because my only access to amanita was from high heat dried samples. In a bag of total duds I found 1 cap that gave me fleece, and that was all I needed!

It's great that you are taking to the with skepticism and a willingness to see for yourself. I'm definitely not a scientist so dont take my word for it, but understand that there is a reason I'm so passionate about this, and I believe the fleece is integral in furthering our understanding of amanitas. It is so interesting that the fleece will come forth from any amanita. There must be some kind of mutualistic, perhaps even parasitic relationship? I feel it must share some important role with the amanita, and I wonder if growing amanitas in lab conditions has always been a futile attempt without the presence of the fleece... Hence so little success with growing amanitas. Total speculation of course, but the fleece lives in the amanita and science has never looked into its role. I speculate (with a grain of salt of course) that the mold produces the original source of ibotenic acid in the amanita or somehow adds to it. (it could be some variant of ibotenic acid. If you grow it you'll see what I mean, because it does feel similar yet different.) then the mushroom somehow processes it. When I grew pantherina fleece it was always exactly as potent as muscaria derived fleece, but there was a noticable toxin present in panther fleece which was otherwise absent from muscaria derived fleece. I had read that panther fleece looks different, shorter and more silvery colored hyphae, but my experience was that there was little to zero difference in appearance. I could not tell them apart except upon ingestion. I had speculated then that pantherina fleece would be more potent than amanita derived fleece, but that proved false in multiple attempts. The same internal organ aches (liver? Kidneys? Idk exactly...) Were present as when you consume panther caps however. I am assuming the reason the that panther caps produce so much more ibotenic/muscimol is somehow this toxin stresses or stimulates the amanita into producing more. Anyways I have panther caps but will no longer work with its derived fleece, there is no benefit over muscaria fleece. Eventually I would love to derive fleece from many different amanita species! I expect subtle differences in all of them, and maybe I'll find a favorite! I could be wrong on all of these accounts, but it is my curiosity that drives me forward in working with the fleece, and I'm not afraid to admit I could be wrong!

Start with growing the fleece on grain for living bread. Dont attempt wine first. I know its not as sexy but you're 99% likely to get contamination from using powdered caps. I've noticed most start with wine, then fail, then stop. You'll get fleece, but lots of other molds/bacterias as well. If you grow on grain first the fleece will shoot up first within 2-3 days! As soon as you see black sporulation on the tips of the hyphae you can then use sterile tweezers to take the cleanest spores and put them into your preferred juice for the ambrosia wine, (or better yet, another batch of grain for a cleaner 2nd living bread which can then be allowed to fully sporulate and then you'll have all the fleece spores you ever want or need!)

The fleece appears to be dimorphic (actually I'm not sure if it has a yeast phase, because there is some under the surface mycelial growth, but it does act yeast-like anaerobically...), in that it can grow aerobically and anaerobically. When grown anaerobically it produces its usual ibotenic-acid-like metabolite as well as Co2. It also takes a while longer. Risk for contam goes down with this method though!
It grows great on beans and if you halt fermentation on the beans before it fully develops it tastes like an OMG amazing tempeh! Left too long the taste becomes more overwhelming, but with a more pronounced psychoactive effect. I think its the glutamate-like compounds which do it, but idk for certain.

Apologies for the wall of text, but if you have any more questions please feel free to ask, as I'm very interested and willing to help! Best of luck to you and i look forward to seeing what you come up with in your video!
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by amanitadreamer » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Wow, this is a lot of really good information. You really have been busy on this. Thank you for sharing it with me. I am covered up right now with other topics and I think what I will do is shelve this until this winter. Right now I need to make the video on growing amanita and the mold I'll do in the winter. For now I will work on trying to find a researcher locally or at least someone with lab access to test it for me.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:11 pm

amanitadreamer wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:23 pm
Wow, this is a lot of really good information. You really have been busy on this. Thank you for sharing it with me. I am covered up right now with other topics and I think what I will do is shelve this until this winter. Right now I need to make the video on growing amanita and the mold I'll do in the winter. For now I will work on trying to find a researcher locally or at least someone with lab access to test it for me.
And thank you for everything you've done, and providing a place for me to share this obscure passion of mine! Maybe by the time you're ready to make the fleece video I'll have made more headway into the bigger ramifications possible with the fleece, which you can share. I'll share briefly where I want to go...

You know how eating food before consuming amanita can substantially reduce its psychoactive effects? Well my fleece experiments primary deal with living bread, for 2 reasons, its completely done in 5-7 days, with about the same amount of psychoactive effect as ambrosial wine (which can take a month or more), and its much less likely to be contaminated. Most of my consumption of the fleece has been eating the bread because I didnt have a dehydrator. I've had some VERY strong effects, but with a very full belly! I think the digestion process is actually reducing the potential of the fleece. Well I recently got a good dehydrator, and now I want to create a concentrated tincture so I can really get a feel for what is possible with this by bypassing the digestive system. Oh! Btw, the actives in the fleece are also easily absorbed through the skin, just fyi!

Anyways i wish you the best in all your ventures!

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by tgt1002 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:35 pm

I hope we eventually get some lab work. Until then this will continue to set of my BS alarms. If we get test results regardless of what they are I will be happy because until then it's just people ranting on the internet. Either way if you are genuine (because I can't know for sure) I wish you the best. Either way I wish you the best and will continue to check back for lab results. Good luck.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by amanitadreamer » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:15 pm

tgt1002 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:35 pm
I hope we eventually get some lab work. Until then this will continue to set of my BS alarms. If we get test results regardless of what they are I will be happy because until then it's just people ranting on the internet. Either way if you are genuine (because I can't know for sure) I wish you the best. Either way I wish you the best and will continue to check back for lab results. Good luck.
I'm editing a video on this right now and hope to have it uploaded sunday morning, July 19.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:34 am

tgt1002 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:35 pm
I hope we eventually get some lab work. Until then this will continue to set of my BS alarms. If we get test results regardless of what they are I will be happy because until then it's just people ranting on the internet. Either way if you are genuine (because I can't know for sure) I wish you the best. Either way I wish you the best and will continue to check back for lab results. Good luck.
I appreciate the well wishes! And yes, Lab results would be huge... So many questions have yet to be investigated by sharper and more methodical minds than mine! I do understand your skepticism though... Especially since there was(/is?) such a cultish following behind the Ambrosia Society, that really can turn certain people away. If you're curious whether or not it's psychoactive though, that is pretty easy to ascertain relatively quickly. If you're worried about safety and anecdotes like mine aren't enough to ease your mind then yeah! I totally get it! It may be quite a long wait for all the answers though.

The bottom line for me is that I feel like I have a bit of a calling here in regards to the fleece... I feel like it may have some amazing potential that perhaps I can work towards unlocking... Anyways I have had multiple experiences with it, have helped a few others grow it who can vouch for it's psychoactive properties, and there are certain ways of preparation I want to experiment with so I can take higher doses than I've been able to thus far. I think this is just one of those kinds of things where you either feel the call or you don't... Not everyone should blaze new trails, in case it doesn't lead a good way... I hope it leads to where I hope it does though! Lolol. Thanks!
amanitadreamer wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:15 pm

I'm editing a video on this right now and hope to have it uploaded sunday morning, July 19.
I can't wait to see it!

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by tgt1002 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:39 am

Yeah. Experimenting with Amanita alone is about as risky as I'm willing to do and I do that with extreme caution and trepidation and to be quite frank I'm probably not careful enough with even that. I do sincerely hope that something positive and interesting comes out of your and others research and mostly I hope that you suffer no consequences to your health from your experimentation. I understand the whole calling out to you thing I get that feeling to a certain degree with psychedelics in general. I was at one point a desperate lonely drug addict. Doing whatever I could to escape my misery. Back then psychedelics only appealed me in a sense of a way to get fucked up. I was immature and lost back then. Since turning my life around after a NDE (near death experience) I started to explore spirituality. In this search I kept coming across new information surrounding the potential benefits and responsible use of psychedelics for healing and shamanic purposes. For whatever reason my searching led me to Amanita Dreamers YouTube channel and I have had an itch in the back of my mind involving Amanita Muscaria ever since. I'm still very new to it all, and hopefully we both find what we are looking for you with your fleece and me with my Amanita research/experiments. Anyway I'm rambling as I often do. If you ever want to chat more send me a DM perhaps we can chat more on discord or something.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by somasupplies.com » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:56 am

Has anyone used pure cultures of amanita muscaria to inoculate the grape-juice liquid media?

If any one is looking for pure cultures of amanita muscaria, I have some pure cultures that are recent isolates from cloned tissue of young amanita muscaria fruit-bodies using sterile technique fall 2020. Inoculating pasteurized grapefruit juice with any thing other than pure culture is going to result in contamination with a plethora of micro-organisms. I would never consume such a concoction. The bio-synthesis of ibotenic acid and its decarboxylation to muscimol is unique to the amanita species.
My user name is the name of my online business. I have not listed pure amanita cultures on my site yet. So Inquire if interested. Is advertising like this prohibited on this forum?

A laboratory that can do HPLC MS/MS assay of the substance in question here to quantify any ibotenic acid, muscimol, or muscarine present in the sample is:

Flora Research Laboratory
1000 SE M St.
Grants Pass, OR 975426 ph. # 541-472- 0980. This is valid as of April 2021.

They would need a 20 ml sample for assay. the cost is about $720 per sample. Turn around time is 14 business days. They are very helpful to new customers in filling out a sample submission form. They invested $40,000 in time & materials developing a validated method to quantify the above named compounds. Usually a client pays this cost ($40,000) if a lab hasn't developed a validated method for a specific assay. Validated means the method was tested with a control sample provided by a chemical supply company.

I do not know of any other lab that offers this service.

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