The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

The Ambrosia Society was created by Don Teeter as a result of his research into Amanita Muscaria. They came to some very interesting conclusions although some of their work related to what they called 'the fleece' was later shown to be erroneous.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Splinters and Shards » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:07 pm

Mcpato wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:33 am
Unfortunately no matter how much more I smoked it didn't get any stronger.
Hi! I've personally noticed that the only thing that makes the fleece stronger (even when smoked) is to drink lots of water. And by lots, imagine you think you are sick and are trying to flush something out of your system. For me, the effects go from cannabis to psilocybin with lots of water.

Other than that, whatever causes the effects seems to act like LSD in that effects do not get stronger with a higher dose once you've reached threshold levels. Fasting for at least 36 hours before also seems to make the effects stronger in my experience.

Hope this helps!
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:43 pm

Splinters and Shards wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:07 pm
Mcpato wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:33 am
Unfortunately no matter how much more I smoked it didn't get any stronger.
Hi! I've personally noticed that the only thing that makes the fleece stronger (even when smoked) is to drink lots of water. And by lots, imagine you think you are sick and are trying to flush something out of your system. For me, the effects go from cannabis to psilocybin with lots of water.

Other than that, whatever causes the effects seems to act like LSD in that effects do not get stronger with a higher dose once you've reached threshold levels. Fasting for at least 36 hours before also seems to make the effects stronger in my experience.

Hope this helps!
Wow! I never would have even thought of trying that! Thank you so much! So... Do you think a large volume of water drunk before hand would have a different effect vs drinking water after consuming??

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:37 pm

Splinters and Shards wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:15 am
I agree with everything that had been said so far and would like to add my own personal experiences to the discussion. I agree that the fleece has been determined to be primarily a mucor, possibly more than one species.

I have personally experimented with drinking liquid that has been sitting in a terracotta cup with the mold growing in it (the grail) and grape juice with the mold grown on top (ambrosial wine). Both have similar effects to water and juice extractions of various Amanitas.

I have noticed (especially with the cups) that drinking more water changes the effects. While Teeter addresses this, his explanation is focused on muscimol/ibotenic acid. I have not found similar effects with any Amanita extraction. I have experienced food poisoning from an unknown mold in the past that produced similar effects when large amounts of water was consumed.

I would not be surprised if further study finds that there is no muscimol or ibotenic acid present. It is quite possible there is another, perhaps similar, chemical produced by this fungus (or collection of fungi) that has similar effects. The unusual effects, which I would say is very similar to psilocybin, have happened to me with another mold. There are many molds and smuts that have potentially caused or influenced hallucinatory effects in people that have required hospitalization.

I think it more likely that there is a mold or molds that grow on or in Amanita Muscaria and similar species with their own unique constituent(s) that result in intoxication similar to the mushrooms. It may even work on the same receptors but with different effects, just as both Anandamide and Delta 9 Tetrahydrocannabinol both work on the same receptor but with different effects. Psilocybin itself does different things at the receptor site than the endogenous ligand.

I am not a research scientist or mycologist, just someone who is very interested in all of this and its implications for the benefit of humanity. These are all my own opinions based on my own experiences. I would just like to point out that instead of looking for Amanita constituents only, that perhaps there are unknown and unnamed constituents that could be discovered in these mold cultures. They may be chemically similar, they may be completely different. They may even work at different receptor sites.

Even the puffballs Lycoperdon Marginata and Mixtecorum have been reported to cause auditory hallucinations and there is no known, detectable constituent that causes this. I myself have experienced auditory hallucinations after eating Lycoperdon Marginata in large amounts. Current tests and methods of analysis may not be able to identify the actives in the fleece. I will continue to do my own personal experimentation and hope that this does come under serious scrutiny and further research.

Thank you for keeping this discussion on-topic and very informative! I hope this helps!
How wonderful to meet a fellow psychonaut unafraid of peering into the abyss! Thank you for that amazing contribution! I find this utterly fascinating and it just further reinforces me in this path! If we did get the fleece tested and it came back negative for muscimol/ibotenic acid, then that would blow my mind, for certainly we'd be dealing with novel chemicals and reactions! Have you ever tried drinking large amounts of water with an amanita based preparation? To compare against the fleece?

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Splinters and Shards » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:51 pm

Mcpato wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:43 pm
Wow! I never would have even thought of trying that! Thank you so much! So... Do you think a large volume of water drunk before hand would have a different effect vs drinking water after consuming??
I haven't noticed any real difference in effect, but the times I did try to drink lots of water beforehand the urge to pee constantly got in the way of enjoying the effects of the fleece once they kicked in. :?
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:00 pm

Splinters and Shards wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:51 pm
Mcpato wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:43 pm
Wow! I never would have even thought of trying that! Thank you so much! So... Do you think a large volume of water drunk before hand would have a different effect vs drinking water after consuming??
I haven't noticed any real difference in effect, but the times I did try to drink lots of water beforehand the urge to pee constantly got in the way of enjoying the effects of the fleece once they kicked in. :?
Hahaha well I'm gonna eat my moldy bean fleece concoction today and drink lots of water with it, and see what happens! I'm so glad you told me about this today! I'll post about it on the fleece cultivation thread, so thank you again!
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Splinters and Shards » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:41 pm

Mcpato wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:00 pm
Hahaha well I'm gonna eat my moldy bean fleece concoction today and drink lots of water with it, and see what happens! I'm so glad you told me about this today! I'll post about it on the fleece cultivation thread, so thank you again!
Awesome! I'm excited to hear how it works for you!

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Splinters and Shards » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:53 pm

Mcpato wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:37 pm
How wonderful to meet a fellow psychonaut unafraid of peering into the abyss! Thank you for that amazing contribution! I find this utterly fascinating and it just further reinforces me in this path! If we did get the fleece tested and it came back negative for muscimol/ibotenic acid, then that would blow my mind, for certainly we'd be dealing with novel chemicals and reactions! Have you ever tried drinking large amounts of water with an amanita based preparation? To compare against the fleece?
I have tried to drink lots of water with many different Amanita Muscaria preparations as well as with other Amanitas. I'm not sure if my experiences with destroying angels or death caps would have gone as well as they did (no symptoms of amatoxin poisoning) if I hadn't added lots of water. The main benefits I get are feeling less sleepy (when the fall-on-your-face feeling comes around), it helps if I ever get headaches on Amanitas (probably from dehydration anyway), and my urine comes out clear and feels more potent if I'm drinking lots of water or fasting.

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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by T36 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:18 am

. I'm not sure if my experiences with destroying angels or death caps would have gone as well as they did (no symptoms of amatoxin poisoning) if I hadn't added lots of water....
:shock: :o :shock: details pls)
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Mcpato » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:02 pm

I've been in contact with my old high school teacher who found out about our working with the fleece and wanted more info so he could forward it to his mycologist colleague. I thought his reply to my teacher was interesting so I wanted to share it here!
This is definitely a passionate hobbyist you’ve cultivated. I’d be a little nervous about him ingesting large quantities of any “wild” molds that he’s growing due to the unknown nature of what they might be producing. I’d be encouraging him to identify his molds with microscopy and DNA sequencing. Screen them for known mycotoxins based upon the Genus before moving on to using anyone as a bioassay of the material.

1) Amanita muscaria has been used by various cultures in different religious sacraments is well documented and links well to contemporary biochemistry descriptions of the psychoactive compounds found in the fruiting bodies.
a) it is quite possible that the mycelium produces a completely different set of compounds than the fruiting body. The best documentation of this is in Lions Mane mushroom where the mycelium produces erinacine A which stimulates nerve growth factor in mice and humans, but the fruiting body has none of the active compounds. (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.nutres.2005.06.001). Psilocybe mushrooms have also been shown to not produce their psychoactive components of Psilocin and Psilocybin in the their mycelium and just in the fruiting bodies where it is most likely an anti-feed defense against animals eating the fruiting bodies before spores are formed. Their mycelium apparently produces MAO-inhibitors from the β‐carbolines family similar to those found in the Amazonian brew known as ayuashca(https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... .201904363)

1) Mucor - Definitely a Genus producing antimicrobial compounds as Mucor mucedo has been used historically to make “bandages” with by growing the mycelium and then covering wounds with it. It appears some Mucor also produce mycotoxins like 3-nitropropionic acid (mitochondrial inhibitor)
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF03032341
This makes me think he should be approaching this very cautiously. 3-nitropropionic acid is found in some fermented foods like Miso, so outcomes are very dose dependent and working with an unknown or having no way to analyze 3-nitropropionic acid concentration is throwing caution to the wind. It appears TLC can be used to determine concentration which should be something a knowledgable hobbyist could do.
I do really hope we can get this fleece analyzed sooner than later.
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Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece

Post by Kill_blind_elite » Thu May 28, 2020 5:56 am

Where is the article of mycologists identifying mucor at? I would like to read it as im making a fleece right now. And i see no reason why mycelium couldn't grow on a substrate like any other mushroom, it just cannot fruit because it needs tree roots to fruit. Does someone have a link to this? Or is this just conjecture? I have seen other people saying the same things on other forums saying they saw that mycologists proved that it was mucor.
There is one thing that i have seen on here that was wrong for sure though. Just looking at it grow in a bottle can't be a verifiable proof that it's a white mold just by looking at it. If you have ever seen a dead amanita growing it's own mycelium in the air from the right conditions to foster it growing in the air looking for a host, it looks exactly like the "fleece material".

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