Re: The Ambrosia Society's Fleece
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:06 pm
So after the maybe a little confusion like post at some points yesterday i wanted to clear the mess up a little bit.
This post is dedicated to the Structure similarities thing i talked about.
So my claim is as already said, the GAD could have the same impact (decarboxylation) on the mystery compound of the fleece like it has on the ibotenic acid -> Muscimol and Glutamate -> GABA,
because it could be a precursor of ibotenic acid with then of course a similar structue.
So the fleece produces the precursor and the Amanita mushroom takes this precursor and metabolizes it to ibotenic acid, so far the theory.
Of course i can only assume this, but i think the situation that the fleece produces a compound whose effects could be explained maybe as Fly agaric inebration light, would "confirm" this.
therefore i think the theory it could be a precursor with a similar sturcture and similar but lighter psychoactive properties is not toooo far fetched what do you think ?
think about the maybe a bit more far fetched example of LSA and LSD.
maybe not the best example because LSA is natural and LSD isnt but i yo kno what i mean.
The thing that a wider specturm of different and similar compounds can be decarboxylized by the GAD then just glutamate and ibotenic acid, can in my opinion be very good seen in just looking at the structures.
i dont know how good one can see this as how i tried to explained this yesterday, so now i tried to create a shematic where it shoud be seen a bit better. at first there are Glutamate and ibotenic acid.
as i tried to show you yesterday there are more well known compounds with actually psychoactive properties.
Some of them have greater similarities with glutamate then ibotenic acid.
i picked the well known compound Pregabaline (lyrica)
and created a theoretical pre-decarboxylized precursor form of it to demonstrate, that the GAD should lead to decarboxylation of this theoretical compound more obviously than with ibotenic acid because it has more structure similarities with glutamate then ibotenic acid.
under the thoretical pre-decarboxylated Pregabaline precursor i placed a shematic of the possible places for isomeric playroom for our mystery compound of the fleece.
But as far as i know its already considered as a fact that ibotenic acid gets decaboxylated by GAD.
This expands the possibilitys of what the mystery compound could be dramatically because there is even larger room for isomers of glutamate/ibotenic acid
this is the reason for me placeing the compound glutamine and its theoretical decarboxylated form beneath them all, because as you can see in the next shematic glutamine shares even more similarities with ibotenic acid then glutamate does. (the arrows are of course no reactions) So as you can see Glutamine shares a more detailed Ground skeletal structure with ibotenic acid then glutamate does with ibotenic acid, because it shares the Nitrogen at this place with ibotenic acid where glutamate (or glutamic acid) has only an oxygen atom. But of course the dobble bounds are on different locations but i think the same atom placements are nearer similarities then just the same dobble bound placements. (especially when considering the metabolic pathway)
this would lead to even greater possibilities what the mystery compound could be.
The mystey Fleece active (theoretic precurser of Ibotenic acid) could not only be an isomer of glutamate/glutaminic acid but also a isomer of the near relative glutamine.
By the way does someone know this decarboxylized form of glutamine? it should have already a name i think, because of its rather simple structure (i dont mean the name 1,4-diamino-butan-1-on)
This is all theoretical and i´ll be happy with all of your critics, additions, help, questions, or other forms of feedback! feel free to join this discussion!
This post is dedicated to the Structure similarities thing i talked about.
So my claim is as already said, the GAD could have the same impact (decarboxylation) on the mystery compound of the fleece like it has on the ibotenic acid -> Muscimol and Glutamate -> GABA,
because it could be a precursor of ibotenic acid with then of course a similar structue.
So the fleece produces the precursor and the Amanita mushroom takes this precursor and metabolizes it to ibotenic acid, so far the theory.
Of course i can only assume this, but i think the situation that the fleece produces a compound whose effects could be explained maybe as Fly agaric inebration light, would "confirm" this.
therefore i think the theory it could be a precursor with a similar sturcture and similar but lighter psychoactive properties is not toooo far fetched what do you think ?
think about the maybe a bit more far fetched example of LSA and LSD.
maybe not the best example because LSA is natural and LSD isnt but i yo kno what i mean.
The thing that a wider specturm of different and similar compounds can be decarboxylized by the GAD then just glutamate and ibotenic acid, can in my opinion be very good seen in just looking at the structures.
i dont know how good one can see this as how i tried to explained this yesterday, so now i tried to create a shematic where it shoud be seen a bit better. at first there are Glutamate and ibotenic acid.
as i tried to show you yesterday there are more well known compounds with actually psychoactive properties.
Some of them have greater similarities with glutamate then ibotenic acid.
i picked the well known compound Pregabaline (lyrica)
and created a theoretical pre-decarboxylized precursor form of it to demonstrate, that the GAD should lead to decarboxylation of this theoretical compound more obviously than with ibotenic acid because it has more structure similarities with glutamate then ibotenic acid.
under the thoretical pre-decarboxylated Pregabaline precursor i placed a shematic of the possible places for isomeric playroom for our mystery compound of the fleece.
But as far as i know its already considered as a fact that ibotenic acid gets decaboxylated by GAD.
This expands the possibilitys of what the mystery compound could be dramatically because there is even larger room for isomers of glutamate/ibotenic acid
this is the reason for me placeing the compound glutamine and its theoretical decarboxylated form beneath them all, because as you can see in the next shematic glutamine shares even more similarities with ibotenic acid then glutamate does. (the arrows are of course no reactions) So as you can see Glutamine shares a more detailed Ground skeletal structure with ibotenic acid then glutamate does with ibotenic acid, because it shares the Nitrogen at this place with ibotenic acid where glutamate (or glutamic acid) has only an oxygen atom. But of course the dobble bounds are on different locations but i think the same atom placements are nearer similarities then just the same dobble bound placements. (especially when considering the metabolic pathway)
this would lead to even greater possibilities what the mystery compound could be.
The mystey Fleece active (theoretic precurser of Ibotenic acid) could not only be an isomer of glutamate/glutaminic acid but also a isomer of the near relative glutamine.
By the way does someone know this decarboxylized form of glutamine? it should have already a name i think, because of its rather simple structure (i dont mean the name 1,4-diamino-butan-1-on)
This is all theoretical and i´ll be happy with all of your critics, additions, help, questions, or other forms of feedback! feel free to join this discussion!