Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

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Gjayy
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Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

Post by Gjayy » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:51 pm

I came across the potential benefits of AM recently. 7 years off Benzodiazepines and still struggling physically, mentally, and have tried virtually everything out there to heal. Could someone please explain how AM can help when it works on the same pathways as benzos. My nervous system seems to be very weak, theanine, magnesium, taurine or anything that works on gaba receptors give me problems...

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Re: Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

Post by Halibut_Acid » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:13 pm

Not sure I can give you exactly the answer you're looking for, but I can give some info and some of my experience. Muscimol is a direct GABA receptor ligand, while most of the other common chemicals (alcohol, benzos) are positive allosteric modulators. Direct receptor ligands bind to the active site of the GABA receptor while positive allosteric modulators bind to a secondary site on the receptor that conformationally changes the receptor protein in a way that causes the active site to have an increased affinity for endogenous GABA. As for why the Amanita muscaria mushroom is anecdotally known to heal a disrupted GABA system, I do not have this answer. I have personally not delved deep enough into the literature to confirm or deny the existence of data that experimentally supports Amanita muscaria's ability to do this.

As for my experience; I had a pretty bad run in with some of the more potent benzos that are available online. I reached levels of tolerance that I would not have believed to be possible had I not experienced them first hand. Needless to say I dealt with some serious PAWS after I kicked these drugs in rehab over the course of 5 days with the help of phenobarbital. Around one year after cessation, a cycle of bacopa (in the form of synapsa) along with lion's mane began to give me my first taste of relief from the anxiety I had continued to experience up to that point. It wasn't until year 2 that I began to really be able to enjoy my life and at that point I began using kava and psychedelics in hopes of healing myself further. Amanita muscaria came into the picture around 2.5 years after cessation of benzos and provided something of a breakthrough. It gave me a glimpse of what was possible. I'm now about 3.5 years out and I no longer believe I suffer from the damage that was done by my heavy use of benzos. It was really a slow process of healing, and there is no magic bullet. But between kava, Amanita muscaria, and intentional and directed psychedelic use I have finally reaches a point where I don't feel inhibited by my previous abuse of strong chemicals. I hope some of this information can help you on your journey, and healing truly is possible.
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Re: Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

Post by Gjayy » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:20 pm

That’s starting to make sense. Thanks for taking the time to reply, it’s much appreciated.

Considering the general thought is that only time will heal the receptors, having this as an option is a real boost. I’m currently taking Lions Mane, and was taking Bacopa but think my nervous system may not be ready for that just yet as certain thing seem to decimate my sleep quality. I’m hoping the AM will really help with that. Trying to to get the old BDNF up as cognition has taken a hit.

I’ve read conflicting info on kava with regards to moa, I actually took it for a while when I first came off the bzd, got to the point where I couldn’t stomach the drink as it has a very particular taste....although would definitely give it another go if it need be. Would that be another direct receptor ligand?

Have also dabbled with micro dosing psilocybin but again would probably now go down the am route 1st. Could I ask how you use it, as in amount and how often. Do you use it to maximise deep sleep?
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Re: Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

Post by Halibut_Acid » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:02 am

So as for the pharmacology of kava, it is a bit of a mystery. There are probably some people who could give a better explanation than I can and there is alot of great information over at the kava forums. It is not believed to be a receptor agonizing ligand of any kind as far as I am aware. I have taken many other nootropics throughout this process as well, some others that were pretty useful but it was really a process of trial and error. Semax, shilajit both come to mind but I was recovering from polydrug addiction and generally poor lifestyle. The classical psychedelics help in microdose quantities but the introspection of high dose experiences have really allowed my to identify the thought patterns, childhood traumas, etc., associated with my anxieties.

Amanitas on the other hand have been more of a way to get into a centered place during the day. I recomend following AmanitaDreamer's microdosing methods as they seem to be fairly effective. I started out by eating small amount (~1g) of dried caps but her methodology is simply superior to this method.

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Re: Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

Post by amanitadreamer » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:45 pm

Halibut_Acid wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:13 pm
Not sure I can give you exactly the answer you're looking for, but I can give some info and some of my experience. Muscimol is a direct GABA receptor ligand, while most of the other common chemicals (alcohol, benzos) are positive allosteric modulators. Direct receptor ligands bind to the active site of the GABA receptor while positive allosteric modulators bind to a secondary site on the receptor that conformationally changes the receptor protein in a way that causes the active site to have an increased affinity for endogenous GABA. As for why the Amanita muscaria mushroom is anecdotally known to heal a disrupted GABA system, I do not have this answer. I have personally not delved deep enough into the literature to confirm or deny the existence of data that experimentally supports Amanita muscaria's ability to do this.

As for my experience; I had a pretty bad run in with some of the more potent benzos that are available online. I reached levels of tolerance that I would not have believed to be possible had I not experienced them first hand. Needless to say I dealt with some serious PAWS after I kicked these drugs in rehab over the course of 5 days with the help of phenobarbital. Around one year after cessation, a cycle of bacopa (in the form of synapsa) along with lion's mane began to give me my first taste of relief from the anxiety I had continued to experience up to that point. It wasn't until year 2 that I began to really be able to enjoy my life and at that point I began using kava and psychedelics in hopes of healing myself further. Amanita muscaria came into the picture around 2.5 years after cessation of benzos and provided something of a breakthrough. It gave me a glimpse of what was possible. I'm now about 3.5 years out and I no longer believe I suffer from the damage that was done by my heavy use of benzos. It was really a slow process of healing, and there is no magic bullet. But between kava, Amanita muscaria, and intentional and directed psychedelic use I have finally reaches a point where I don't feel inhibited by my previous abuse of strong chemicals. I hope some of this information can help you on your journey, and healing truly is possible.
I;ve been looking online for this exact information, the biochemistry of muscimol's action ever since finding amanita 2 years ago. Thank you for this. Do you have anything I can read? I have so so little at my disposal. I found it while I was still tapering and it healed so much for me. I got on Lion's Mane immediately. I also use Reishi since there's crossover between the immune and nervous system.
The sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me". Look what happens with a love like that. It lights up the whole sky. ~Sufi
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Re: Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

Post by amanitadreamer » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:47 pm

Gjayy wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:20 pm
That’s starting to make sense. Thanks for taking the time to reply, it’s much appreciated.

Considering the general thought is that only time will heal the receptors, having this as an option is a real boost. I’m currently taking Lions Mane, and was taking Bacopa but think my nervous system may not be ready for that just yet as certain thing seem to decimate my sleep quality. I’m hoping the AM will really help with that. Trying to to get the old BDNF up as cognition has taken a hit.

I’ve read conflicting info on kava with regards to moa, I actually took it for a while when I first came off the bzd, got to the point where I couldn’t stomach the drink as it has a very particular taste....although would definitely give it another go if it need be. Would that be another direct receptor ligand?

Have also dabbled with micro dosing psilocybin but again would probably now go down the am route 1st. Could I ask how you use it, as in amount and how often. Do you use it to maximise deep sleep?
Kava and I do not do well together. It gave me restless legs and amped up my anxiety the day after using it. So far amanita has been nothing short of miraculous for me for all the things, anxiety, sleep, nervous system issues, boosting immunity and has lessened my need for supplementing electrolytes and other metals. I hope you find some good results with it.
The sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me". Look what happens with a love like that. It lights up the whole sky. ~Sufi
AmanitaDreamer.Net for videos on amanita
Community/mushroomvoice.com
YouTube Amanita Dreamer
Instagram @amanitadreamer

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Re: Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

Post by Halibut_Acid » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:09 pm

amanitadreamer wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:45 pm
Halibut_Acid wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:13 pm
Not sure I can give you exactly the answer you're looking for, but I can give some info and some of my experience. Muscimol is a direct GABA receptor ligand, while most of the other common chemicals (alcohol, benzos) are positive allosteric modulators. Direct receptor ligands bind to the active site of the GABA receptor while positive allosteric modulators bind to a secondary site on the receptor that conformationally changes the receptor protein in a way that causes the active site to have an increased affinity for endogenous GABA. As for why the Amanita muscaria mushroom is anecdotally known to heal a disrupted GABA system, I do not have this answer. I have personally not delved deep enough into the literature to confirm or deny the existence of data that experimentally supports Amanita muscaria's ability to do this.

As for my experience; I had a pretty bad run in with some of the more potent benzos that are available online. I reached levels of tolerance that I would not have believed to be possible had I not experienced them first hand. Needless to say I dealt with some serious PAWS after I kicked these drugs in rehab over the course of 5 days with the help of phenobarbital. Around one year after cessation, a cycle of bacopa (in the form of synapsa) along with lion's mane began to give me my first taste of relief from the anxiety I had continued to experience up to that point. It wasn't until year 2 that I began to really be able to enjoy my life and at that point I began using kava and psychedelics in hopes of healing myself further. Amanita muscaria came into the picture around 2.5 years after cessation of benzos and provided something of a breakthrough. It gave me a glimpse of what was possible. I'm now about 3.5 years out and I no longer believe I suffer from the damage that was done by my heavy use of benzos. It was really a slow process of healing, and there is no magic bullet. But between kava, Amanita muscaria, and intentional and directed psychedelic use I have finally reaches a point where I don't feel inhibited by my previous abuse of strong chemicals. I hope some of this information can help you on your journey, and healing truly is possible.
I;ve been looking online for this exact information, the biochemistry of muscimol's action ever since finding amanita 2 years ago. Thank you for this. Do you have anything I can read? I have so so little at my disposal. I found it while I was still tapering and it healed so much for me. I got on Lion's Mane immediately. I also use Reishi since there's crossover between the immune and nervous system.

I will dig up the other sources where I have seen this information, but for now here is a quote from the wiki article on muscimol.

"Muscimol is a potent GABAA agonist, activating the receptor for the brain's principal inhibitory neurotransmitter, GABA. Muscimol binds to the same site on the GABAA receptor complex as GABA itself, as opposed to other GABAergic drugs such as barbiturates and benzodiazepines which bind to separate regulatory sites."

The other places I have seen information about this I found while looking into the chemical gaboxadol, a similar GABA agonist discovered by Povl Krogsgaard-Larsen when he was looking into the chemistry of Amanita muscaria in the 70s. There is also an episode of the show Hamilton's Pharmacopeia where he takes a trip to the carpathian mountains to learn more about Amanita muscaria and he actually interviews Povl Krogsgaard-Larsen. I think there may be some discussion of the pharmacology in there. Because of my job I have access to a lot of literature that would normally cost money to read, so maybe if I have some time this week I will see if I can dig something up that has more details.

Lion's mane is great, as is reishi. I really can't imagine my life without some of these amazing mushrooms.

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Re: Protracted withdrawal syndrome (benzo)

Post by Musubi » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:24 am

there is one study about it that i know of https://www.genesispub.org/restoration- ... a-analysis

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