Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

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Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by amanitadreamer » Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:10 pm

These 2 are both working on lactobacillus conversion, acidic storage and other fermentations. fellas, pls discuss so the community can benefit from your wisdom and thank you so very much for your involvement and sharing.
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by GoTeamUnicorn » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:21 pm

Aloha friends and mush love

This lacto decarb has me really excited.

For my first set of experiments I took 20 grams dry mixed caps foraged in Mendocino county in 2020 and simmered 20 min in 1 cup RO water. The caps were dried by the fireplace so some decarb may have occurred. I normalized to one cup after cooking it down. I divided that batch into two.

I put half the AM flesh and half a cup of 30% decarb tea in 1 gallon RO water with 2 cups live jun starter, 6 tsp oolong tea, one cup honey and about an inch of scoby. This takes 2-3 weeks to brew even on a heating pad to keep it in the high 80s. The starting ph was 4.2. My suspicion is that I don’t need to make the tea first but I’m starting with a conservative approach because I’m ibo shy, although I suspect there’s just nothing dangerous about Ibo. If this works well next I’ll put the flesh in dry and let the lacto and acid do all the decarb.

I put the other half the AM flesh and half a cup 30% decarb tea in 1.5 cups lemon juice and let sit for 20 min. To that I added fresh grated organic ginger, lemon rind, a quarter cup of sugar and 2 cups live gingerbug to kick off the ferment. I filled it to a half gallon with RO water. I did all the decarb first because a ginger soda only ferments 3 days and becomes very carbonated in that time. I want sure if there was a time factor to lacto decarb so for this first ginger soda I have used 60% decarbed tea before begging in the ferment. Next time I’ll just soak the flesh in the lemon and skip the simmering.

On day 4 I chilled the AM ginger lemon soda and drank one fifth of it, 1.5 cups. This is approx double my normal microdose when I calculate out by volume. The effect was remarkable. Within 40 min I was floaty and dissociative, unable to focus on a scream or bring myself to read before bed. Slept like a king. No dreams. No hint of ibo. The taste was surprisingly human, fleshy even, not stinky but it smelled like skin and hormones; more like rejuvilac which is fermented sprouted grains than like a ginger lemon soda.

On day 5 I drank 2 cups. At 40 min I was visibly high and sleepy. I had a lover over who noticed that my libido was low from the musc. I woke up at 230 am with a cough and took cough medicine. I noticed that I was no longer AM drunk but felt rested and easily fell back asleep. No dreams. In the morning my libido was high and my body felt deeply released.

On day 6 I took 2 cups and played video games. I’d taken a long hike and my knees were hurting. By 40 min I was not able to care about the action on screen and just wanted to cuddle. I slept as though I am not actively grieving for this beautiful planet and all her beloveds. It’s like it lifted the fear and hopelessness from my shoulders and I did not dream.I had not realized the baseline level of anxiety I’d been living with until it parted like a fog (this is after a full 6 weeks microdosing earlier this spring with excellent results defusing the charges around childhood traumas and starting to free me from heavily self medicating with canabanoids).

Today is day 7 and I think I’m confident I’m well above 90% decarb on this brew, there’s no noticeable ibo, which I was acutely aware of in my 60% decarb tea at doses a third the size of what I’m taking now.

I’ll report back in on the jun/kombucha when the ph gets low enough. It’s hard to know how fast the decarb is going without testing it daily but I’m going to give it a conservative 2 weeks in the brew.

Other options: I have living mothers for Apple cider vinegar, a red ale malt vinegar and a Bordeaux vinegar that are low ph but the fermentation is pretty slow- 3-4 weeks and I bet the acidity does most of the work upfront in the first 20 min. Anyone want an AM Bordeaux vinaigrette dressing for their foraged greens?

Kraut!!! So it should be possible to make fully decarb Kim chi and I. Am. Here. For. It. In all likelihood my first shot at this would be to juice a head of cabbage with ginger/turmeric, a little lemon and a pinch of salt and add a cup of starter from my krout jar. Then put the AM dry in the fluid and let it counter ferment 5 days. Any form of lacto pickling should work.

Coconut yogurt. I make this with coconut milk and a lacto starter culture I’ve been keeping ten years in my fridge. I can get the ph down but I suspect there will be issues with the fat extraction at room temperature because of how coconut oils extract other flavors at heat. I’d make tea first but then I run the risk of getting a spoonful of mostly ibo before bed so this is the experiment I’m least excited about.
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by AmanitaN00b » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:12 pm

Would love to hear more about this 👍
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by GoTeamUnicorn » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:47 pm

Final day taking the AM gingerbug. This is a continuation of my first post on gingerbug.

Took 2 cups well before bedtime so I could sense the musc. 20 min in got an analgesic wave and was feeling creative. I think maybe I finally got enough ibo to notice it but there was so much musk I want giggly or anything. By 40 min I was feeling drunk and dissociative. Spent 20 min on a stationary bike and watched my heart rate which seemed normal. Maybe I was sweatier, maybe. After 2 hours I could read and watch tv and follow a conversation again. Libido was high 3 hours after ingestion and again in the morning. No dreams. Slept really well.

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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by Mahreeoh17 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:52 pm

What was your process on the kombucha? Just letting the Am sit in a bottle of it for two weeks?

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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:45 pm

I'm so glad someone else is working on this! How did the kombucha turn out? Did you get full decarboxylation?

I have a honey kombucha culture that's adapted to black tea that ferments and acidifies 2-3x faster than jun at room temperature, so I was thinking of doing some experiments with that as soon as I get some dried Amanita Muscaria. I will keep this thread updated with process/results. I plan on using this for microdosing muscimol for therapeutic purposes, will be titrating up in 1mL increments.
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:49 pm

Just started a 1L batch of honey kombucha with 10g dried Amanita Pantherina using the microdose tea recipe as concentrated base tea with no lemon and added black/white tea. Will keep this thread updated with results!
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:07 am

10/2/21 Update - First batch is fermenting fine with scoby forming, just started another 1L honey kombucha batch with tea made from 20g fresh Amanita Muscaria var. Guessowii. Will be interesting to see the differences between batches.

10/4/21 Update - Tried approximately 1mL of the 1L kombucha made from dried Serbian Amanita Pantherina. The kombucha has been fermenting for five days now and the taste has developed some acidity, but has not reached the stage where I would typically bottle it. These mushrooms had a strong animal musk to them dried, but that flavor is not present in the kombucha. Around 30 minutes in I am noticing some significant GABA effects in addition to some very mild ibotenic acid stimulation/nausea/dry mouth. Feels significantly smoother and dreamier than touching fresh A. Muscaria so I know some decarb has occurred. Quite creative and lucid so far with anxiety melting away. I think Derek and David may have been on to something about longer kombucha fermentation times, however.

10/5/21 Update - Got impatient/curious and tried approximately 2mL of the 1L Amanita Pantherina kombucha. Taste is more acidic and fruitier - bubbles are starting to form around the scoby. Less body load than last night's dose and more signifcant GABA dreaminess. Feels stonier and almost dissociative compared to the 1mL dose. Very happy and light headspace, if a little sleepy. This is getting close to the ceiling I'm looking for in terms of effects. I think I will try 2mL again at the 10 day mark to allow more acidification/decarb to occur.
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:49 am

10/13/21 Update - The dried Pantherina Kombucha batch has been fermenting for 14 days and the fresh Muscaria var. Guessowii batch has been fermenting for 11 days. Both have formed thick scobys and are bubbling away - I think the kombucha culture likes to eat Amanitas. The Pantherina batch smells kind of leathery but the fresh Guessowii batch smells like fruit and peaches. I tried 3mL of the Pantherina Kombucha around an hour ago and it was fairly acidic, definitely feels like it is mostly decarbed - there's a little bit of ibotenic acid feeling but its mostly a happy blissful peaceful GABA feeling from the muscimol. Very smooth, no nausea or muscle twitching. I'm also noticing some shifts in color contrast and a little bit texture breathing/swirling in the visual field. I think it would be OK to bottle at this point since it should continue decarbing in the bottle, but I will probably let it go for longer just to see if it makes any difference.

I will try the fresh Muscaria var. Guessowii kombucha in 3 days to see the differences in effect. I am guessing these were some pretty strong mushrooms based on my reaction to touching the fresh caps. I also have collected some more var. Guessowii and dried them to use for another batch. When I get ahold of some, I can't wait to make a batch with Regalis.

At this point I feel comfortable saying that kombucha is an effective (if slow) method for decarbing Amanita tea, with a minimum of 2 weeks for a comfortably high level of decarb (I won't make any claims about full decarb since I don't have chromotography). I can post the recipe I'm using if anyone's interested, though I would be careful making it as strong as I did for safety reasons. Precise dosing/titration is a must if you're making kombucha from any muscimol-containing Amanita, let alone 1l of kombucha from 10g of panther caps.

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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:48 pm

10/19/21 Update: Tonight I tried 5mL of the Amanita Pantherina kombucha and it feels fairly close to a full decarb - very smooth dreamy muscimol feeling with a stony headspace and none of the body load present at the beginning of the ferment. It has been almost 3 weeks now and it is almost unpalatably acidic. I will be bottling tonight! I am so excited that this worked out!

I also tried 1ml of the Fresh A. Muscaria var. Guessowii batch at the two week mark (10/15) as promised and it was quite IBO heavy, though I could feel significant muscimol conversion had occurred. There was also a psychedelic brightness that I have only noticed from touching the fresh caps that was even stronger in the kombucha. I am very curious what is going on here since it does seem to be distinct from the ibotenic acid feeling. It tasted sweet and not very acidic compared to the Pantherina batch, which leads me to believe that the 1/2 gallon jar slowed down the ferment a little. I've moved the batch to a 1 gallon jar and I will try a dose again at the 21 day mark.
Last edited by lostmushroomforest on Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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