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Amanita_Muscaria_
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questions

Post by Amanita_Muscaria_ » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:20 pm

So correct me if im wrong.

Drying in the shadow = 30% conversion , if succeded in the oven with certain range of heat is also 30%
Cooking the mushroom, or making a tea out of it, is another 30% conversion am i right?
so if i dry it on, lets say, a radiator its gonna be 0% conversion? and only then if i cook it it will convert by 30 %?

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UrsusSapiens
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Re: questions

Post by UrsusSapiens » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:59 am

Not quite, it's a little more complex:

Heat: converts -on itself- up to 30% ibotenic acid to muscimole, IF temperature is between 70 and 75 degree Celsius in a dry environment (so air drying at lower temps or cooking in water does not count).
Cooking : produces just a hot water extract (also called tea) which a negligible conversion, as long as the pH of the water is around 7 (neutral). IF you simmer the mushroom on 70 degrees in an acidic solution (pH 4 or lower) you will get a conversion rate up to 80%.
No heat: In an acidic solution, there will some conversion happen, probably more than 30%, but surely less than the 80% achieve by simmering. At room temperature (about 20 degrees Celsius) over night, DMSO can achieve some remarkable conversion rates over the 80%. Trying this out right now in my witch kitchen...

Please consider: Any UV light will convert a certain amount of ibotenic acid into muscazone, no matter what temperature or dryness. This amount will not be available for the muscimole conversion.

So, there you have it. Pick your choice how you want to proceed, what your tools are and what suits your needs.
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Re: questions

Post by Amanita_Muscaria_ » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:27 am

ok so i have a little batch of air dried mushrooms and want to make a tea... When do i apply the lemon(and how much of it ) ? into the water in which the mushrooms will be cooking or do i add it after i pour off the ready tea into a glass? Also if i understood you correctly, boiling an air dried A.M's with the neutral Ph of the water will create an inactive water extract (tea) ? I have done everything wrong with this AM process holy shit....i've been back and forth in and out of the area where they grow like 6 fucking times and cleared the whole fucking area of AM's,,, fucking WASTED ALL OF THEM...all i've got left is like 6 tiny pieces of AM...2 weeks passed and ive got fuckk all of any medicinal or recreational use...and the season is almost if not already over.... ALso i dont get it... you said heat converts the ibotonic acid into muscimol, but if i were to cook (using heat 70 degrees C) Am's in 7ph water the conversion would be "neglible" ?? how the f does that work??..... Should i even bother making a tea?... since the mushrooms are air dried? Seems like theyre fucking useless if theyre air dried... Ive made 2 teas out of those air dried Am's and it had a very slight effect (if it wasnt a placebo)
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Re: questions

Post by UrsusSapiens » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:54 am

First thing to keep in mind is: the distribution of active substances vary greatly, even in mushrooms that are the same size and that grew side by side on the same soil. Variations of up to 500% are not unheard of. So to be sure you are not underdosing / overdosing, you will have to determine the potency of your mushrooms and/or your extract. Since there is no simple (i.e. without some chromatography) way to know the potency beforehand, you will have to test the extract. That's why I usually make a larger batch, so I can even out differences between mushrooms and have enough extract to do a calibration test on.
But WHAT extract? Well, actually, you can make different extracts out of your AM... It all depends, on what you want to do. Are you keen on keeping the ibotenic acid (e.g. for pain medication)? Do you want to convert most of the stuff into muscimol (for the GABA-application or shamanic purposes)? These questions define, how you want to dry and then treat your AM.
Drying (especially air drying) isn't a bad thing. It actually keeps you all the doors open for later processing, especially, if the AM was air dried without much sun light ( because of the conversion of ibotenic acid into muscazone). With air drying, you get fairly long storable AM, that can keep the ibotenic acid; so it's actually good raw material. I dry mine in a dehydrator at 40-45 degree celsius, so nowhere near the conversion temperature, and I can use them for whatever sinister plans I have in my mind :twisted:
If you want to go the muscimole route, just grab your dried AM and toss them in simmering water with some citric acid (lemon juice works as well). At 70 degree Celsius the citric acid will convert the ibotenic acid into muscimol. Just check that your water has the necessary pH < 4. pH test stripes are available on amazon or your next pharmacy. Grinding the AM up beforehand can improve the extraction process (but it can make the filtering afterwards harder). The resulting extract contains up to 80% of the original ibotenic acid in the form of muscimol.
If you just boil them in neutral water (and you even don't HAVE to boil it, because all the relevant agents are fairly watersoluble even at room temperature.... you just could make a cold water extract), you will get a tea of ibotenic acid with a tiny muscimol fraction. That's not necessarily a bad thing... cooled down, you could use it as pain medication externally - works really swell... hundred thousands of Russians use it everyday with great success on back pain and arthritis.
But if you drink this ibotenic acid tea, your body will have to do the conversion work, which means, your (already uncertain) dosage will suffer the so-called "first pass effect" - resulting in a much less reliable effect. And since you don't really know about the potency of your mushrooms beforehand, overdosing to compensate the first pass effect is not a good idea - you could very well bite off more than you can chew. But you could still drink your own urine after you ingested that extract :o (Yep, that's what the shamans of old did... They overdosed AM, let their body do the conversion, and everyone else received a portion of their urine, which was -thanks to the first pass effect- full of muscimol. Nowadays, this procedure is not to everybodies taste anymore :roll: ).

Even easier should be the conversion with DMSO. According to the patent posted in this forum, DMSO converts ibotenic acid at room temperature over night into muscimol. So about 2 ml DMSO on half a litre filtered cold water extract should do the trick (never tried that myself, but I'm working on it).

You could also take your (fresh or air dried) mushroom and dump them into a bottle of 40% vodka (or any other 40% booze) and place them at your window for 4 weeks, filter it and store it. This method was very common in the eastern part of Prussia. A small shot glass had definitely an effect that surpassed the pure alcohol effect.

However - no matter what method you used, you still have no clue about the potency of that extract. There are just 2 way of finding out:
1. Try in small increasing steps. Start small and work round to your "psychoactive" dose. That is your reference dosage for this batch and only for this batch. You will have to determine your reference dosage for every single batch you produce. This method especially applies to the DMSO route, since it could be quite dangerous to boil DMSO solutions down.
2. Filter the extract as good as you can (at least through a coffee filter), then boil the extract down until you get a weighable dry residue. If you weigh this residue, you could get a good estimation, how potent your extraction is, but you need a decent milligram scale. The dry residue is very storable and could be very easily brought into solution again, and this time, you have a better idea about the potency.

I hope I could be of any help.
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