Amanita Vodka Help!

[Fliegenpilzjunge]

I gathered 24 amanita muscaria und 6 amanita patherina, first airdried them because i wasn't sure what i wanted to do with them. Then after a few weeks ground them all up together and yesterday I put them in Vodka.
Right now I have the Vodka Bottle sitting on a heater in the house.
After 4 weeks on the heater i plan to put a few drops of it in a shot glass and add a few drips of lemon juice concentrate and drink it.
I decided to make an amanita vodka, because I hope to get a decent shelf life out of it, say a year. This also gives me a uniform batch to work with.
Is this going to work or am i gonna die? Any recommendations?
Please discuss

[Aquavitae]

Do you have any picture?

[UrsusSapiens]

24 AM and 6 AP? In a single bottle vodka? If it's a 1-litre-bottle, this stuff could pack some punch . My (russian) sources say to put the bottle next to a window into the sunlight, but given the UV-sensitivity of ibotenic acid (and the unknown effects of muscazone), I think it was a wise move to put it on the heater.... Nevertheless, this stuff will be full of Ibotenic acid, so it's best to think things over. Using it as an pain remedy (externally) is quite possible. Ingesting it should be possible - but cautiously.... Anyway, it will have to pass through your liver first, to produce it's effect.

[Fliegenpilzjunge]

24 AM and 6 AP? In a single bottle vodka? If it's a 1-litre-bottle, this stuff could pack some punch . My (russian) sources say to put the bottle next to a window into the sunlight, but given the UV-sensitivity of ibotenic acid (and the unknown effects of muscazone), I think it was a wise move to put it on the heater.... Nevertheless, this stuff will be full of Ibotenic acid, so it's best to think things over. Using it as an pain remedy (externally) is quite possible. Ingesting it should be possible - but cautiously.... Anyway, it will have to pass through your liver first, to produce it's effect.

Thanks for the tip, but i thought that, if applied for long enough like 4 weeks, the heat produced by a heater would be suffiecient to convert 30% of ibotenic acid. Is that not the case?
Is putting lemon juice concentrate in with the vodka after 4 weeks when i want to drink some going to convert any ibotenic acid like with LEMON TEK?

[Fliegenpilzjunge]

Do you have any picture?

Sorry, it wont take the pic as a jpg file.
I shall describe: the fluid in the bottle has become a deep red and there are many many bits and pieces of the amanitas swimming around everywhere

[Splinters and Shards]

It depends what kind of effect you want. That is a similar method to how I make tincture. It's a great way to extend the mushroom for a long time as it lasts and the dosages are very small compared to other methods.

I personally do not convert my tinctures, meaning I use dried or fresh mushrooms and keep them in a cool dark place. A couple of drops taken every few hours goes a long way. I would personally keep the tincture in a cool place and convert as needed. In theory, the actives will not degrade as quickly this way.

I like to make an active tea by boiling water, adding as much tincture as I want (40 to 50 drops for a dose with strong effects) and then add honey and lemon. It makes a great tasting tea with good effects. Plus the tincture means more consistent dosing.

I would personally try the tincture a drop at a time to see how it feels. You will quickly figure out the overall strength of the batch. Holding the tincture under my tongue brings effects on very fast, usually under a few minutes as opposed to up to an hour if eating mushrooms or drinking tea. I also find that unconverted tincture is much better for pain and relaxation (think the analgesic and calming properties of cannabis). For me, converted preparations tend to bring on twitches and muscle spasms along with a sort of frenzied feeling. One is good for relaxing, the other good for times when being superhuman is beneficial.

If I had a big bottle of tincture, I would take about 5 drops (using an eyedropper or by dipping in a butter knife and letting the tincture drip onto my tongue) right away to see how it feels. Give it a few minutes and if the effects are too weak, add three more drops and wait a few more minutes. I would keep it up until I feel what I was hoping to feel. That would give me a good idea for dosing. I start small because I can always take more if the effects are too weak.

I treat an Amanita tincture like a bottle of fire. I do not fear it, I respect it. I know it can be very helpful in small controlled amounts and devastating if applied too liberally. So I would go slow and ramp up to the effect I want, rather than guess the dose and end up spasming on the floor (personal experience. Though it's quite pleasant, just scary if it's your first time. Also scary for any family members who find you jerking around on the kitchen floor).

It's also equally dangerous to guess too small a dose, feel nothing and then go overboard the next time. If you don't feel any effects with a few drops, add a couple more. Also if the mushrooms you are getting are old or improperly prepared, you may not experience powerful psychoactive effects (though I always experience mood boosting, pain suppressing effects) even at high doses.

Hope this helps!

[Fliegenpilzjunge]

It depends what kind of effect you want. That is a similar method to how I make tincture. It's a great way to extend the mushroom for a long time as it lasts and the dosages are very small compared to other methods.

I personally do not convert my tinctures, meaning I use dried or fresh mushrooms and keep them in a cool dark place. A couple of drops taken every few hours goes a long way. I would personally keep the tincture in a cool place and convert as needed. In theory, the actives will not degrade as quickly this way.

I like to make an active tea by boiling water, adding as much tincture as I want (40 to 50 drops for a dose with strong effects) and then add honey and lemon. It makes a great tasting tea with good effects. Plus the tincture means more consistent dosing.

I would personally try the tincture a drop at a time to see how it feels. You will quickly figure out the overall strength of the batch. Holding the tincture under my tongue brings effects on very fast, usually under a few minutes as opposed to up to an hour if eating mushrooms or drinking tea. I also find that unconverted tincture is much better for pain and relaxation (think the analgesic and calming properties of cannabis). For me, converted preparations tend to bring on twitches and muscle spasms along with a sort of frenzied feeling. One is good for relaxing, the other good for times when being superhuman is beneficial.

If I had a big bottle of tincture, I would take about 5 drops (using an eyedropper or by dipping in a butter knife and letting the tincture drip onto my tongue) right away to see how it feels. Give it a few minutes and if the effects are too weak, add three more drops and wait a few more minutes. I would keep it up until I feel what I was hoping to feel. That would give me a good idea for dosing. I start small because I can always take more if the effects are too weak.

I treat an Amanita tincture like a bottle of fire. I do not fear it, I respect it. I know it can be very helpful in small controlled amounts and devastating if applied too liberally. So I would go slow and ramp up to the effect I want, rather than guess the dose and end up spasming on the floor (personal experience. Though it's quite pleasant, just scary if it's your first time. Also scary for any family members who find you jerking around on the kitchen floor).

Hope this helps!

Thanks a lot Splinters and shards, as well as all those who contributed to me not dying miserably. You've answered most of my questions brilliantly. Thank you guys and gals so much!
But wait, there's more:
How much ibotenic acid will approximately be converted by 4 weeks of sitting on the heater? I would have said about 30%, please correct me if I'm wrong.
When i want to try my brew after 4 weeks, will combining a few drops of my "tincture" with a drop of lemon juice in a shot glass have the desired effect of converting even more ibotenic acid, say 70%?
Is the ratio between lemon juice and tincture (or tea or whatever you're making) important? If so, what should it be?
Btw I accidentally wrote about wanting to use lemon juice concentrate in the original post, i plan on using regular old lemon juice, NOT concentrate since that's what i happen to have at home. Just in case that's important
Also wound you recommend boiling this tincture down in a pot until perhaps 50 to 100ml remain? Would doing so convert more ibotenic acid?
I thought making a tincture with high alcohol content would prolong shelf life: Alcohol however boils before water does, so reducing the tincture to 100ml by boiling means boiling off all the alcohol before the water starts boiling off, would this shorten the shelf life? Would you give a non binding estimate on how long these different methods' shelf lives might be?
Let's say after a year or so i try some of this tincture, how much of the effect will be lost during that time in comparison to using it right away?

[Splinters and Shards]

While I do not know the specifics, keep in mind that any heat sufficient to convert ibotenic acid is also sufficient to degrade both the muscimol and ibotenic acid. While you may get a good conversion you will also be lowering the overall alkaloid content.

Though if you boil, the alcohol will be gone. To make it stable again, simply mix the resulting concentrate with an appropriate amount of everclear or as close to 190 proof (95% ethanol) as you can. Here's a simple formula for figuring how much you need.

% alcohol to add = (alcohol % wanted ÷ alcohol content of additive) × 100
Or X% = (A% ÷ B%) × 100

So for trying to get 40% by adding 95% everclear to your boiled concentrate, it would look like this:

X% = (40% ÷ 95%) × 100
X% = (0.4210%) × 100
X% = 42.10%

So you'd need about 42% everclear to about 58% of your concentrate. So roughly 2 parts everclear to roughly 3 parts concentrate. (Feel free to fix my math if I flubbed it up)

I prefer 40% (80 proof) for any mushroom tinctures for maximum shelf life and to prevent water solubles from precipitating out (a common problem with higher percentages of alcohol). I treat my Amanita tinctures like all my other mushroom tinctures because mushrooms are packed with all sorts of beneficial compounds.

Hope this helps!

Maybe others better versed in the chemistry can chime in on conversion rates.

[UrsusSapiens]

Thanks for the tip, but i thought that, if applied for long enough like 4 weeks, the heat produced by a heater would be suffiecient to convert 30% of ibotenic acid. Is that not the case?

Nope, sorry to disappoint you.... But conversion with heat will only happen at about 75 degrees Celsius in a DRY environment. The last time I checked, vodka was fluid
So your heater MAY produce the 75 degrees, but lacking the dry environment, you still end up with an ibotenic acid solution in a water/alcohol mix. But it will be quite stable to store, after filtering, if you keep it out of sunlight.

Is putting lemon juice concentrate in with the vodka after 4 weeks when i want to drink some going to convert any ibotenic acid like with LEMON TEK?

Well, you COULD.... but you still need that heat along with the acidic environment. At 75 degree Celsius, your alcohol will evaporate a lot faster than normal... It's your call.

I put my A.M. straight in a bottle... nothing else in there. I packed them reasonably tight, wrapped the bottle in tinfoil and stored it away in the fridge for 4-6 weeks. The mushrooms squeezed themselves out (yeah, I know, I'm lazy.... ). I just had to filter them (cheese cloth -> coffee filter -> cotton ball filter -> Sawyer water filter) and add sufficient high percentage alcohol (Sprit zum Ansetzen, 90-95 vol.%, alternatively Everclear) to achieve 20 vol. % in the finished product. I use it externally only for my father's back pain. Works like a charm.

If you want to ingest your mushrooms, then simmering them at 75 degree in an acidic solution (like lemon juice in water, (or citric acid in water, like I do)), is IMHO the better way. Alternatively you could use a cold extract of A.M. together with a small amount of DMSO. Both will result in a conversion of ibotenic acid to muscimol in the 80ish %-range..... I'm not totally sure, how good the DMSO route is in terms of taste and effect in the human body, but the lemon tek is a tried and true method, just ask our founder, Amanita Dreamer, or watch her vid on this method.

[Mcpato]

If you want to ingest your mushrooms, then simmering them at 75 degree in an acidic solution (like lemon juice in water, (or citric acid in water, like I do)), is IMHO the better way. Alternatively you could use a cold extract of A.M. together with a small amount of DMSO. Both will result in a conversion of ibotenic acid to muscimol in the 80ish %-range..... I'm not totally sure, how good the DMSO route is in terms of taste and effect in the human body, but the lemon tek is a tried and true method, just ask our founder, Amanita Dreamer, or watch her vid on this method.

Would apple cider vinegar work in place of lemon juice?