The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Feel free to discuss what you want.
User avatar
Rebis
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:07 am
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 40 times

The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by Rebis » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:48 am

Is the purpose of converting Ibotenic acid to muscimol purely so one doesn't get naunsea and a stomach upset?

Rebis.
These users thanked the author Rebis for the post:
Aquavitae

User avatar
T36
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:44 pm
Location: Here, there, im everywhere;D
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by T36 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:50 pm

Muscimole is also 10 times more active/stronger/psychoactive than ibotenic acid...
I think muscarine is mostly responsible for the naunsea stomach upset...
And this:
Image
These users thanked the author T36 for the post (total 2):
AquavitaeRebis

Donn
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:38 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by Donn » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:57 pm

Rebis wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:48 am
Is the purpose of converting Ibotenic acid to muscimol purely so one doesn't get naunsea and a stomach upset?
Well, ibotenic acid is apparently fairly toxic, if it gets into your system. The wikipedia article mentions that they use it in rat experiments to "lesion" (i.e., partially destroy) their brains. But that of course is done by introducing it directly to the desired damage site.

But ... "Most of ingested ibotenic acid is probably decarboxylated into muscimol so the effects of ingesting ibotenic acid are similar to muscimol's effects." This makes some sense - your stomach is of course quite acidic, for starters.

But it does sound like they're kind of guessing. So here's a question for you experienced users: ever have a conversion failure, a batch that was bad juju because it wasn't properly dried/heated/etc.? First hand experience? What was it like?
These users thanked the author Donn for the post (total 2):
AquavitaeRebis

User avatar
Aquavitae
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by Aquavitae » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:23 pm

Ibotenic acid has been patented as a flavor enhancer in 1969 in the US if i´m correct. Monosodium glutamate is used instead of ibotenic acid for that purpose. There´s some debate over monosodium glutamate neurotoxicity as well.
These users thanked the author Aquavitae for the post:
Rebis

User avatar
Rebis
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:07 am
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by Rebis » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:56 pm

Thanks for your replies everyone.
This, and the other thread about what chemicals are in AM's, sort of explains it for me, and as I suspected.

Rebis. :)

User avatar
Aquavitae
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by Aquavitae » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:55 pm

Maybe the organoleptic properties of this mushroom are another factor that made Am valued in cultures that used it, besides muscimol´s gaba agonist action.

Ibotenic acid´s savory umami like flavor and action possibly enhance mannitol´s sweetness?

User avatar
Splinters and Shards
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:25 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 107 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by Splinters and Shards » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:36 pm

Personally, I don't concern myself with converting ibotenic acid to muscimol. I used to, but now I treat Amanita Muscaria like I would any of the edible Amanitas. I dry and cure them if I plan on eating them raw. I cook them if I plan on eating them fresh. I make tinctures either fresh or dried and then dry out the tinctured mushrooms after extraction.

The main difference I've experienced between covered and unconverted preparations is that the converted ones start out sooner and cleaner. This is for large doses and strong trips, at microdose levels I don't perceive a difference. The effects also tend to reach a peak and then subside. Unconverted preparations tend to come in waves, sometimes with a secondary or even tertiary trip hours after the first. Unconverted preparations also tend to be less consistent. My most powerful Awakening experienced happened hours after a first (and fairly mild) trip while using Amanita Regalis.

I have no idea why this is but it may have something to do with the way conversion happens during digestion. Again, just a thought of mine, I have no idea why there is a difference. I personally like unconverted preparations thought many of my friends who enjoy all sorts of fungi do not like the unpredictable and sometimes extremely dissociative effects. I feel like I get more out of an unconverted preparation overall. Kind of like a roller coaster (unconverted) compared to a really tall slide (converted).

Hope that makes sense! :mrgreen:
These users thanked the author Splinters and Shards for the post (total 2):
DonnAquavitae

User avatar
UrsusSapiens
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:36 am
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 80 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by UrsusSapiens » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:15 am

Rebis wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:48 am
Is the purpose of converting Ibotenic acid to muscimol purely so one doesn't get naunsea and a stomach upset?

Rebis.
To the best of my knowledge (and I refer to Chefs, dietary chefs, and my own experience), the main (perhaps NOT the single!) cause for nausea and/or stomach upset when eating ANY mushroom, is the fact, that mushroom build their main bio-mass of chitine (like bugs), which is for most humans (especially in the western world) an unaccustomed food source with very little caloric value. It really shows, when you eat different mushrooms: some, could be eaten raw, without a problem, some are "heavy on your stomach" even cooked or fried... I've eaten AM raw (just to shock the omnipresent "Those mushrooms are POISONOUS!"-Know-it-alls), never had STOMACH problems (occasional dizziness although DID happen); sometimes I do get stomach pain when I eat fried boletus, and I even once threw up after consuming psilocybine sclerotiae. It depends all on the chitine type of the mushroom and your own susceptibility to this mushroom.

There is no doubt about it, that ibotenic acid put a lot of stress on your liver. This can lead to other problems - stomach upset is usually none of them.

IMHO converting ibotenic acid to muscimol is done, to get more muscimol. That's it. If I want to use AMs for something else, where I don't use the muscimol, I won't convert the ibotenic acid to muscimol. Simple as that. Did so yesterday when I finished my pain remedy from AM. I WANT the ibotenic acid, because of it's abilities.
These users thanked the author UrsusSapiens for the post:
Rebis
Nature isn't mute - it's man who is deaf.

User avatar
Rebis
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:07 am
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by Rebis » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:33 pm

UrsusSapiens wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:15 am


IMHO converting ibotenic acid to muscimol is done, to get more muscimol. That's it. If I want to use AMs for something else, where I don't use the muscimol, I won't convert the ibotenic acid to muscimol. Simple as that. Did so yesterday when I finished my pain remedy from AM. I WANT the ibotenic acid, because of it's abilities.
Does that mean then, that the Ibotenic acid is good for pain relief, while the Muscimol is more for the mental effects?

Rebis.

User avatar
UrsusSapiens
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:36 am
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 80 times

Re: The Purpose of Converting Ibotenic Acid Is ...?

Post by UrsusSapiens » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:34 am

Rebis wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:33 pm

Does that mean then, that the Ibotenic acid is good for pain relief, while the Muscimol is more for the mental effects?
At least I use it that way.... Ibotenic acid for pain relief, Muscimole for psychedelic.... though I haven't figured out yet, what the Muscazone is good for... (You get muscazone instead of muscimole, if you hit your ibotenic acid with UV lights....).
These users thanked the author UrsusSapiens for the post:
Rebis
Nature isn't mute - it's man who is deaf.

Post Reply