Amanita muscaria propagating towards the Southern Hemisphere

Feel free to discuss what you want.
Donn
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:38 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Amanita muscaria propagating towards the Southern Hemisphere

Post by Donn » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:23 am

Who knows, this was all quite some ways back.
wikipedia wrote:Some anthropologists believe that the Apache and the Navajo were pushed south and west into what is now New Mexico and Arizona by pressure from other Great Plains Indians, such as the Comanche and Kiowa.
The accounts I can find put his birthplace hundreds of miles to the north, and his name really wasn't Geronimo. It seems to me this might be someone else. The Apache warrior we know as Geronimo was believed by his people to have supernatural powers - invulnerability to bullets, healing, knowing events from far away - as he himself believed, and credited to an Apache deity "Ussen".

Here's an account of his early life and lineage, from Angie Debo's "Geronimo: The Man, His Time, His Place."
To his birthplace Geronimo gave the Apache name of No-doyon Canyon and located it near the headwaters of the Gila River in what is now southeastern Arizona, then a part of Mexico. At other times he stated simply that he was born in Arizona. But by modern nomenclature the Gila does not head in Arizona, for of the branches that unite near the present-day town of Clifton to form the main stream, one now carries the name into New Mexico.

Daklugie accordingly moved the location upstream to the three forks of the river near the present Cliff Dwellings National Monument in southwestern New Mexico. Geronimo could not have been mistaken about the site. Apaches regarded their birthplace with special attachment. The child was always told of the location, and whenever in its roving the family happened by, he was rolled on the ground there to the four directions. But Geronimo or his editor could have been mistaken about the state. Even that seems improbable, however, for the Apaches soon became aware of such political subdivisions in dodging military forces. One can only say that Geronimo was born in the early 1820's near the upper Gila in the mountains crossed by the present state boundary, probably on the Arizona side near the present Clifton.

His father was Taklishim ("The Gray One"), the sone of Chief Mahko of the Bedonkohe Apache tribe. His mother, although a full-blood Apache, had the Spanish name Juana. Possibly she had been captured and enslaved by the Spanish. For centuries there had been a pattern of Apache raids on Spanish settlements and Spanish capture and enslavement and occasional escape of Apache women and children. As an adult, Geronimo spoke Spanish, which he might have acquired from his mother or which he might have picked up from his contacts with the Mexicans.

Geronimo never saw his grandfather, Mahko, who died when Taklishim was a young warrior. The chief had two wives, and after his death the principal one, whose name is not now remembered, continued to exert a strong influence within the tribe. She was the mother of five of his six children who grew to adulthood. One of these was Taklishim and another was a daughter whose daughter, Nah-thle-ta, became the mother of Jason Betzinez. Mahko's other wife had one daughter, the mother of a notable woman named Ishton, the mother of Asa Daklugie.

The grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Mahko were taught to revere his memory. Geronimo grew up listening to his father's tales of the chief's great size, strength, and sagacity, and of his wars with the Mexicans, at that time under Spanish rule. Betzinez described another aspect of Mahko's life. He was peace loving and generous, raising much corn and owning many horses, which he traded with the Mexicans, and storing corn and dried beef and venison in caves, which he shared with the needy of his tribe. Probably both characterizations are true. The Bedonkohes were relatively undisturbed in their mountain fastness during Mahko's lifetime, and at such periods trading relations might be established with the Mexicans, but there were traditions of old wars and raids.

User avatar
Aquavitae
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Amanita muscaria propagating towards the Southern Hemisphere

Post by Aquavitae » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:19 pm

So we are talking about different spanish language speaking Bedonke (or Bedonkohe) Apache chiefs then, who happened to have the same name (real or not)?

The Bedonke Apache man, named Gerónimo, I was referring to here was more mexican than salsa verde, he was baptized and his mother´s name was Juana.

The Bedonkohe Apaches were also known as "los apaches del Gila".
Last edited by Aquavitae on Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Donn
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:38 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Amanita muscaria propagating towards the Southern Hemisphere

Post by Donn » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:21 pm

So it would seem. If they met, it must have been awkward, because he really hated Mexicans. Another explanation might be that, here on "Amanita Research Forum", we can converse with people in not-quite-parallel universes. Where you are, is there armed conflict in Ukraine, Syria, Yemen?

User avatar
Aquavitae
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Amanita muscaria propagating towards the Southern Hemisphere

Post by Aquavitae » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:52 pm

Donn wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:21 pm
So it would seem. If they met, it must have been awkward, because he really hated Mexicans. Another explanation might be that, here on "Amanita Research Forum", we can converse with people in not-quite-parallel universes. Where you are, is there armed conflict in Ukraine, Syria, Yemen?
The Apache Bedonkohe Gerónimo 500 million "hispanics" worldwide may know of, because that´s what the data and evidence seems to show (at least using the internet search engine in spanish here in Western Europe), that´s the one I was talking about.

It´s information even published and divulged in different newspapers.

It seems to be we are being fed different narratives once again here.

Well, I guess it´s up to one´s own conscience to buy or not to buy those narratives, using historiographic techniques for instance.

User avatar
Aquavitae
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:26 pm
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Amanita muscaria propagating towards the Southern Hemisphere

Post by Aquavitae » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:23 pm

Donn wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:27 pm
I have the impression that A. muscaria has been introduced in South America with nursery stock from the northern hemisphere. If so, has been there only a couple generations at most, and probably not at all yet in areas with strong surviving indigenous culture.
Agree on that one... :geek:

Post Reply