Thoughts on Teeter's "Grail Method"?

[MitsuEn]

Hello, lovely humans!

This is my first post here and, before I begin prodding y'all's brains for advice, it is worth mentioning that I'm very grateful to have been referred by @Mcpato from the Ambrosia Society forum. As I am sure you all know, it is challenging to find reliable information or AM devotees. Your existence gives me the happy tummy butterfly feels!

Onward:

My spouse and I did some reading on AM a month or two ago and continued on to order caps from two separate sources with intentions to follow different preparations. I enjoy caretaking as a spiritual practice, so I decided to try my hand at Teeter's Grail. I used 1/2oz dried caps soaked for 6 hours in honey water within a terracotta olla for my preparation. Now that I have an olla and bits of AM drying down inside of the vessel (along with the Amanita extraction in my refrigerator), I have a couple of questions...

1. What are the chances that the fungus that colonizes the vessel will actually be AM? There seems to be a disagreement on whether the fungal growth on the "fleece method" is actually AM and the similarity of the two methods makes me curious about what I will be ingesting from future brews.

2. Does anyone who has used this method have recommendations on dosing? My spouse drank roughly 250mL of the extraction without much effect last night. He did heat it for 20min and add lemon before ingestion. I am uncertain if I should drink more or if AM is significantly individualized.

3. Beyond the typical concerns about contamination, what pitfalls have y'all encountered?

[Mcpato]

Hello, lovely humans!

This is my first post here and, before I begin prodding y'all's brains for advice, it is worth mentioning that I'm very grateful to have been referred by @Mcpato from the Ambrosia Society forum. As I am sure you all know, it is challenging to find reliable information or AM devotees. Your existence gives me the happy tummy butterfly feels!

welcome @MitsuEn! I'm so happy you've joined with us on this journey! Its a much more difficult path to walk alone, and the more people are willing to join together to walk through this uncharted territory, the more likely we will be successful! I have been working on this for a over a year now and have failed enough to know that success requires lots and lots and lots of patience.
I didnt have much help from the Ambrosia Society's forum because not many people are active there... There are several possible reasons for this, but suffice it to say there is at least one (ME! Lol) very actively involved person wanting to unravel the secrets of this mysterious entheogen!

Onward:

My spouse and I did some reading on AM a month or two ago and continued on to order caps from two separate sources with intentions to follow different preparations. I enjoy caretaking as a spiritual practice,

Do you mind elaborating how you mean caretaking as a spiritual practice? I'm imagining bonsai. Lol!

so I decided to try my hand at Teeter's Grail. I used 1/2oz dried caps soaked for 6 hours in honey water within a terracotta olla for my preparation. Now that I have an olla and bits of AM drying down inside of the vessel (along with the Amanita extraction in my refrigerator), I have a couple of questions...

1. What are the chances that the fungus that colonizes the vessel will actually be AM?

as long as it is a white fleecy growth it is most likely what you're looking for. Smells should not be "bad".
For example my last grail attempt failed when it started smelling like severe hallitosis, and then later grew a green mold everywhere. Contamination with grails is very common, if/when it fails, don't lose heart!

There seems to be a disagreement on whether the fungal growth on the "fleece method" is actually AM and the similarity of the two methods makes me curious about what I will be ingesting from future brews.

I think this issue is part of the reason why so many people bailed from exploring this further. Idk how much you've read online about this drama, but Don Teeter was convinced it was a variant form of amanita muscaria fungus, kinda like how some fungi have both a mycelial chain phase as well as a single yeast cell phase. Scientists observed the fleece and determined it was a type of mucor mold. Scary! Look up mucormychosis to be freaked out. The analysis was based on appearance alone and was not based on what chemicals or toxins are present. No analysis of that kind has happened yet. It became an ambrosia society against science kinda thing. A lot of people were turned off from it, afterall mold = bad! That didnt stop me though because it was determined to be a type of mold that is likely in the Rhizopus family which is used to make a fermented food called tempeh. That was at least indicative that it was safe enough for me to work with. Obviously proceed with caution and if you're immunocompromised maybe dont snort the spores, and generally exercise caution. We're literally culturing an unidentified fungi, whatever the heck it is. It grows exponentially faster than many other fungi, even amanita muscaria. Personally, I think it is a fungus (mold) that grows symbiotically with amanita, called an endophyte fungi. I'm curious if it isn't the part of the amanita that produces the psychoactive effects. The fleece produces something like ibotenic acid, but may ultimately prove to be an unidentified chemical. It will have to be scientifically analysed to put this to rest. My experience with it is very safe and that it is very similar to AM, but also different... And it is insanely difficult for me to put into words. You feel it very quickly after consuming and it is "pleasant"... Yeah you'll have to tell me how you would describe it once you make your grail ambrosia... I haven't yet had a really strong dose of the fleece just tons of small doses, and a few medium doses.

2. Does anyone who has used this method have recommendations on dosing? My spouse drank roughly 250mL of the extraction without much effect last night. He did heat it for 20min and add lemon before ingestion. I am uncertain if I should drink more or if AM is significantly individualized.

3. Beyond the typical concerns about contamination, what pitfalls have y'all encountered?

2) since I work mostly with the fleece i cant help much here but you're asking in the right place!

3)Contamination is such a huge one... If you can cultivate even a tiny amount of fleece and then isolate that, let it go to spores, you will eliminate 70% of all future contamination issues by using clean spores as opposed to not so clean dried mushroom! Thats what I've focused on and it has made a huge difference! Otherwise i have yet to figure out a simple way to mass produce the living bread. I live in a small appartment with VERY little space for this strange "hobby" (i feel like its more of a calling at this point! Lol) of mine, and until i can invent a simple effective way to make a lot of this, i cant experiment with the divine doses.
I haven't yet successfully created a grail. My last attempt failed (the halitosis failure) because i didnt allow it to fully dry before i soaked it again. Basically i became impatient... I posted about it with pictures!

Lastly, check out our ambrosia society threads, we have a little corner here you can post your progress, questions, etc! Click to the board index, then Amanita Muscaria, then click Ambrosia Society, and there we are! I wish you the very best!

[Donn]

1. What are the chances that the fungus that colonizes the vessel will actually be AM? There seems to be a disagreement on whether the fungal growth on the "fleece method" is actually AM and the similarity of the two methods makes me curious about what I will be ingesting from future brews.

Chance = none whatever. Amanita muscaria grows in the forest, as an obligate mycorrhizal symbiont with vascular plants. Always trees, as far as I know, but it isn't highly specific and I can't rule out mycorrhizal association with other plants.

If some fungus grows in your pot, it's mold. I vaguely recall that this growth in question is usually a "pin mold", Rhizopus or similar. That's what the photos I've seen look like.

If you ever want to grow mushrooms, you can get kits - oyster mushrooms or shiitake for example all ready to go, or you can get spores of other species in a plain brown wrapper and make your own kit. It's kind of fun and the oyster mushrooms are tasty, and it will give you a good look at what mushroom mycelium looks like. It's pure white, and quite dense when it has grown up.

[MitsuEn]

there is at least one (ME! Lol) very actively involved person wanting to unravel the secrets of this mysterious entheogen!

I suspect you have two more folks as of today! I drank roughly 350mL of my AM iced tea earlier and the experience has been lovely. Most of my work with entheogens has been through the DMT door. DMT feels like being dropped into a bottomless sea full of unseen things the first time -- this felt like a hug from a friend. I am sipping on more now to delve a bit deeper.

Do you mind elaborating how you mean caretaking as a spiritual practice? I'm imagining bonsai. Lol!

You aren't that far off. For most of my life, I've gravitated toward caring professions, volunteered for hospices and animal shelters, and kept flora and fauna in my home. I lived in a Zen monastery for a chunk of time and it was during my stay there that I realized caring for others is a powerful tool for realizing our interconnectedness.

Idk how much you've read online about this drama, but Don Teeter was convinced it was a variant form of amanita muscaria fungus, kinda like how some fungi have both a mycelial chain phase as well as a single yeast cell phase. Scientists observed the fleece and determined it was a type of mucor mold. Scary! Look up mucormychosis to be freaked out. The analysis was based on appearance alone and was not based on what chemicals or toxins are present. No analysis of that kind has happened yet. It became an ambrosia society against science kinda thing. A lot of people were turned off from it, afterall mold = bad! That didnt stop me though because it was determined to be a type of mold that is likely in the Rhizopus family which is used to make a fermented food called tempeh. That was at least indicative that it was safe enough for me to work with. Obviously proceed with caution and if you're immunocompromised maybe dont snort the spores, and generally exercise caution. We're literally culturing an unidentified fungi, whatever the heck it is. It grows exponentially faster than many other fungi, even amanita muscaria. Personally, I think it is a fungus (mold) that grows symbiotically with amanita, called an endophyte fungi. I'm curious if it isn't the part of the amanita that produces the psychoactive effects. The fleece produces something like ibotenic acid, but may ultimately prove to be an unidentified chemical. It will have to be scientifically analysed to put this to rest. My experience with it is very safe and that it is very similar to AM, but also different... And it is insanely difficult for me to put into words. You feel it very quickly after consuming and it is "pleasant"... Yeah you'll have to tell me how you would describe it once you make your grail ambrosia... I haven't yet had a really strong dose of the fleece just tons of small doses, and a few medium doses.

Thankfully, my immune system is intact and I suspect Teeter and friends would have mentioned hospitalizations and/or deaths.

I haven't yet successfully created a grail. My last attempt failed (the halitosis failure) because i didnt allow it to fully dry before i soaked it again. Basically i became impatient... I posted about it with pictures!

Heck, if my grail fails, I can bury it under the birch in the front a say a little prayer that there's a viable spore in there.

[Mcpato]

I suspect you have two more folks as of today! I drank roughly 350mL of my AM iced tea earlier and the experience has been lovely. Most of my work with entheogens has been through the DMT door. DMT feels like being dropped into a bottomless sea full of unseen things the first time -- this felt like a hug from a friend. I am sipping on more now to delve a bit deeper.

I'm really excited to "work" with you two! Please share as much as you feel comfortable sharing as you progress down this path! I believe I'm "close" to a breakthrough in working with the fleece and will continue to share everything I learn so that this work can be more and more accessible to everyone. Don Teeter opened the door, now we are mapping the territory. I've already learned more about the fleece than the ambrosia society was aware of, and that's only because I'm not bound to any one way of doing anything. For example the fleece is dimorphic which means it can make a potent wine in anaerobic conditions, and the latest thing i learned is that the fleece can be simmered in water and reduced over the stove to increase potency, which seriously changes everything!! And I only came in possession of the fleece months ago! The potential of what we're working with here is HUGE, i just know it! I personally believe that the fleece may be the true origin (or perhaps essential ingredient) of soma, like Don Teeter believed, and now I'm really feeling it may be related to the ancient Kykeon. If these things are true then we haven't yet worked out just how it was done, but that is what I am working on... So be creative, push boundaries, and don't be afraid to try anything that's never been done before! If you have an idea that you don't want to try, tell me and i might want to! Lol!

You aren't that far off. For most of my life, I've gravitated toward caring professions, volunteered for hospices and animal shelters, and kept flora and fauna in my home. I lived in a Zen monastery for a chunk of time and it was during my stay there that I realized caring for others is a powerful tool for realizing our interconnectedness.

Beautifully said! I agree entirely! Nurturing the fleece has had a similar effect on me, I've become more aware of my own mycelial roots, so to speak, and has made me feel even closer to all forms of life.
Again, Thank you for joining us on this journey, i hope it is as fulfilling for you as it has been for me!