*****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

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*****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by Zopphire » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:06 pm

Accidental discovery, mixing amanita with lactic acid creates an entirely unique, more potent and classicaly psychedelic experience at low to medium recreational dosages.

I have experimented with recreational dosages of conventionally prepared amanita boiled for many hours at very low pH using a range of acids. The difference in experiences is stark. This is NOT the product of decarboxylation. This is NOT muscimol or ibotonic acid. I urge you to confirm for yourself.

I believe this is why urine features so much in association with amanita, as with each pass of urine consumed more ibotanic acid/muscimol is exposed to lactic acid naturally present in the body. After experiencing the distinctly discernable feeling of this third substance I was able to identify it after a few cycles into a urine looping experiment. The effects progressively grew stronger as the number of urine loops consumed increased... fun times.

Iymt's worth mentioning highly decarboxylated amanita consumed at recreational dosages in the past made me feel disconnected from my body as if I was about to drift into a coma and simply forget I existed. Like holding onto my body by a thin thread. Personally I prefer a balance of ibotanic acid and muscimol when conventionally prepared. Again, this is not ibotanic acid or muscimol producing the effects when prepared with lactic acid. The effects are distinct.




Effects experienced at unknown (accidental) high dose:


No Nausea whatsoever

Waves of white completely encompassing visual field beginning at periphery making their way inwards in a circular fashion every few seconds. Rhythmicly pulsing. Physical response at peak of each wave as subtle muscle tension. Could this progress to seizures at higher doses? I don't know.

Visuals progressed to surfaces appearing as if bubbling. Stalicmites and stalictites outlined in faint irredecense descending from roof in waves as if someone were fast forwarding time for several seconds then pausing for a second or two. Boiling visuals speed up, boiling slows down.

Time appeared to slow down, stop and fast forward cyclicly right infront of me in a completely objective, non immersive way. Observing waves/pulses of time without being immersed in them such as time dilation on Mushrooms, LSD etc. Like watching a TV on fast-forward then pause repeatedly. I wasn't "appart" of the time distortion besides the muscle tension. I was an observer.

Mental and emotional stability vastly different to LSD, psilocybin, mescalin, mdma etc. Much more like DMT, bufotenine etc. Not euphoric, not disphoric. Possibly slightly stimulating and mood enhancing in an eccentric, strange dissociative way. Optimisticly edgy. not negative in any way.

Coordination was manageable with strong focus. Again, as the waves/pulses came, muscles and mind would tense and lock slightly.

I find this incredibly regrettable. Certainly not something I am proud of in the slightest, however it is worth mentioning. I managed to drive a car with my significant other to a yoga class and appear completely sober to a small group of people whilst seriously, seriously tripping. I would not have done this if it wasn't absolutely neccesary to do so. I could not have my significant other catching on in any way shape or form and cancelling the class minutes before leaving (right as the effects came on hard) would have created confusion/suspision that I couldn't handle in that state.

Driving a car, interacting with people and getting through a fairly serious yoga class was far, far easier then say on cannabis, LSD etc. I havn't driven on either of those or any other psychedelic, thankfully!



Microdosing:

I have experimented with microdosing and found a marked, perhaps short lived increase in sociability, physical energy, alertness, and focus aswell as distinct body sensations which I would class as activatiom and movement of Jing Qi. Vibrations, electrical sensation etc. Particularly in extremedies. Nothing malevolent or nerve problem related. If you know the feeling you know the feeling.

The next day mood consistently dropped with intense fleeting moments of apathy and despair that made microdosing not a worthwhile longterm pursuit.





I believe Donald E Teeters mention of amanita in sour milk aswell as the possibility of fermented amanita ie mushroom mead need to be looked at much more seriously.

I have a feeling heat may play into this effect in some way. I have not experimented enough to really know. If in doubt, go without. Apple cider vinegar should produce the effect in the right quantities without heating, though I would personally go with lactic acid powder any day over ACV. I tried eating some pasteurised yoghurt after making regular lemon tech style microdose tea. I didn't notice much.




That's my story! I was so excited to find the forum as I've been meaning to tell the world about this discovery but didn't quite know how or where to do so.

Please post your experiences

Thank you!
Last edited by Zopphire on Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by Mcpato » Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:54 pm

Thank you so much for sharing your insights! I only work with the "fleece" and have felt that while it was definitely psychoactive, I was missing something important. Now I am looking forward to experimenting with lactic acid combined with the fleece! It may be a while before I can try it out, but I will share everything I learn! This cutting edge experimentation is so satisfying! I'm surprised by the overall silence so far since you posted, it should be easy enough for anyone to experiment for themselves. Yogurt, buttermilk, sauerkraut, or powdered lactic acid are all worthy of investigation. Personally, I look forward to lactic acid fermentation of living bread. I'll have to experiment a lot though, because adding salt does something, Idk what exactly, to the living bread. Reacts to the chemicals already present and makes it a bit overpoweringly "salty" in a different way. Anyways I really appreciate your direction for experimentation!
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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by Zopphire » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:21 am

Thank YOU Mcpato! I've tried the lactic acid many times now and always feel there is a marked difference in effects, however somewhere in the back of my mind I do wonder if it is just me, placebo, a large dose of ibotanic acid or some other unknown factor, though I do doubt it. Getting others experiences means a lot to me. Thank you! I would go room temperature with lactic acid powder first if possible.

How do you find the effects of the fleece? I tried growing it a number of times after reading Teeter's book but didn't realise the mucor connection and was always freaked out by contamination and block sporalation. I'm so glad your still on the trail and sharing your successes.

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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by Mcpato » Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:40 am

Zopphire wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:21 am
Thank YOU Mcpato! I've tried the lactic acid many times now and always feel there is a marked difference in effects, however somewhere in the back of my mind I do wonder if it is just me, placebo, a large dose of ibotanic acid or some other unknown factor, though I do doubt it. Getting others experiences means a lot to me. Thank you! I would go room temperature with lactic acid powder first if possible.
So I found an old small ambrosia experiment I had cultured in a small jar, then allowed to completely air dry, which I know was active. I dont currently have powdered lactic acid, but I do have buttermilk, which I understand has a little more lactic acid than say yogurt, so I have reconstituted the dried ambrosia and will just let it sit overnight and tomorrow make sure it is well mixed before sampling it. If there is a difference with lactic acid I'll be able to tell pretty easily.
How do you find the effects of the fleece? I tried growing it a number of times after reading Teeter's book but didn't realise the mucor connection and was always freaked out by contamination and block sporalation. I'm so glad your still on the trail and sharing your successes.
The effects are distinct and unique, and both quite pronounced in a way while also being quite mild. It gives me a happy floaty feeling, a little dizzy perhaps? Also the first time you take it, while still mild, feels kinda rough. If you continue to take it for a few days after it becomes more and more enjoyable. I'd say it also makes me much more chatty and fun loving. Others have had visionary like daydream experiences with it, but I havent yet. Tbh I am hoping that lactic acid changes the nature of the experience in a significant way, that may enable a more visionary experience.
I prefer fleece to amanita now, since I've cultivated it I now have it free, its super easy to work with, I can throw it on anything and it will grow, and I believe it is our (humanity's) long lost favorite drug. Perhaps kykeon? It would make sense if kykeon is just living bread soup (barley) cooked with ambrosia wine (not alcohol) and goat cheese (lactic acid). Could it be so simple? My mind gears have been turning! Lolol If so I'll bring back the Eleusinian mysteries for you. Lololol

I'll let you know what happens, and if nothing significant happens I'll get the lactic acid powder and do a good dose with the fleece. I feel this is important, and the role of milk with the fleece makes me think you're really on to something important here.

I've been unable to do a lot of experiments for several months but your discovery has given me a boost in motivation!
Thank you my friend!!
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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by Mcpato » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:06 pm

great news! 2 things, first my dried ambrosia experiment was very very weak, and now I'm rememberimg that I knew that it hadnt developed the same as my other ambrosia experiments, which is why Iet it go until it had completely dried! anyways my first sign that that the fleece is working in my body is raised internal body temperature and sweating. This lactic acid experiment changed the nature of the fleece such that it skipped that part and went strait to all the possitive effects, feeling of lightness, floaty, etc. it was a low dose so it didnt go much beyond that, but I know it could, and now I'm really excited to try a stronger dose!! I wish I had more ambrosia to experiment with. i have no question now though, lactic acid is a convinient and transformational ingredient. The buttermilk worked no question. honestly it worked better than my previous attempts at "reacting" the wine. thank you so much for this knowledge, everyone take note, and buttermilk worked no problem!
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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by Mcpato » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:31 pm

I would like to offer another possible explanation, that perhaps it isnt making an entirely new chemical, but instead converting all chemicals into only one. Whenever we consume amanita, or in my case fleece, it is at best a combination of ibotenic acid and muscimol. fleece is basically all ibotenic acid, or a chemical close to that. it seems that the lactic acid is superior in converting the ibotenic acid into muscimol than say citric or acetic acid. Your perception that there is a new chemical formed, I think, could just be that you experienced almost pure muscimol. It should feel way cleaner. it did for me. Anyways if you're not used to feeling pure muscimol its understandable why you'd experience it as being so different than a combo % of ibotenic acid and muscimol. Converting out all the ibotenic acid is a pretty nice feeling! Thats my take anyways, because it didnt feel like something new to me, it just felt like it removed all the negatives and I was left with only possitives.

On a side not I just recycled my urine and can confirm it is the exact same in feeling all over again! what a wonderful discovery!!

i feel like THIS is the thing that I've been missing, and I'm extremely grateful that you brought this forward for the community.
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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by Zopphire » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:52 am

Unreal!! Looking forward to hearing more.
My lactic acid experiences have been quite stimulating and long lasting. More like adderall or LSD then a gabaergic, though It hasn't really interfered with sleep. The muscle tension has featured a few times now and I'm thinking this is more stimulant related then a excitotoxic, seizuresy kind of thing.

I've prepared 8hr+ tea twice with malic acid. Felt very gabaergic to the point where I was fighting to stay concious and did not feel safe with the thought of going to sleep. No visuals etc. Not sure if that was more of a pure muscimol experience, certainly felt different. Not sure.

Could it be muscimol lactate as opposed to muscimol citrate, freebase etc? Clearly not a chemist :)

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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by Fungo » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:42 pm

Very interesting topic! I´ve noticed different and happy cheerful effects having cacao (fermented by lactic acid producing bacteria) in milk decoction after drinking a AM tea once.

I think i read somewhere that in precolumbian Mesoamerica both cacao and amanitas were used in combination.
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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by tgt1002 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:31 pm

When I finally get around to fermenting amanita tea I will have to keep this in mind
"If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."
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Re: *****Lactic Acid Creates 3rd Active Compound*****

Post by amanitadreamer » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:13 pm

Zopphire wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:06 pm
Accidental discovery, mixing amanita with lactic acid creates an entirely unique, more potent and classicaly psychedelic experience at low to medium recreational dosages.

I have experimented with recreational dosages of conventionally prepared amanita boiled for many hours at very low pH using a range of acids. The difference in experiences is stark. This is NOT the product of decarboxylation. This is NOT muscimol or ibotonic acid. I urge you to confirm for yourself.

I believe this is why urine features so much in association with amanita, as with each pass of urine consumed more ibotanic acid/muscimol is exposed to lactic acid naturally present in the body. After experiencing the distinctly discernable feeling of this third substance I was able to identify it after a few cycles into a urine looping experiment. The effects progressively grew stronger as the number of urine loops consumed increased... fun times.

Iymt's worth mentioning highly decarboxylated amanita consumed at recreational dosages in the past made me feel disconnected from my body as if I was about to drift into a coma and simply forget I existed. Like holding onto my body by a thin thread. Personally I prefer a balance of ibotanic acid and muscimol when conventionally prepared. Again, this is not ibotanic acid or muscimol producing the effects when prepared with lactic acid. The effects are distinct.




Effects experienced at unknown (accidental) high dose:


No Nausea whatsoever

Waves of white completely encompassing visual field beginning at periphery making their way inwards in a circular fashion every few seconds. Rhythmicly pulsing. Physical response at peak of each wave as subtle muscle tension. Could this progress to seizures at higher doses? I don't know.

Visuals progressed to surfaces appearing as if bubbling. Stalicmites and stalictites outlined in faint irredecense descending from roof in waves as if someone were fast forwarding time for several seconds then pausing for a second or two. Boiling visuals speed up, boiling slows down.

Time appeared to slow down, stop and fast forward cyclicly right infront of me in a completely objective, non immersive way. Observing waves/pulses of time without being immersed in them such as time dilation on Mushrooms, LSD etc. Like watching a TV on fast-forward then pause repeatedly. I wasn't "appart" of the time distortion besides the muscle tension. I was an observer.

Mental and emotional stability vastly different to LSD, psilocybin, mescalin, mdma etc. Much more like DMT, bufotenine etc. Not euphoric, not disphoric. Possibly slightly stimulating and mood enhancing in an eccentric, strange dissociative way. Optimisticly edgy. not negative in any way.

Coordination was manageable with strong focus. Again, as the waves/pulses came, muscles and mind would tense and lock slightly.

I find this incredibly regrettable. Certainly not something I am proud of in the slightest, however it is worth mentioning. I managed to drive a car with my significant other to a yoga class and appear completely sober to a small group of people whilst seriously, seriously tripping. I would not have done this if it wasn't absolutely neccesary to do so. I could not have my significant other catching on in any way shape or form and cancelling the class minutes before leaving (right as the effects came on hard) would have created confusion/suspision that I couldn't handle in that state.

Driving a car, interacting with people and getting through a fairly serious yoga class was far, far easier then say on cannabis, LSD etc. I havn't driven on either of those or any other psychedelic, thankfully!



Microdosing:

I have experimented with microdosing and found a marked, perhaps short lived increase in sociability, physical energy, alertness, and focus aswell as distinct body sensations which I would class as activatiom and movement of Jing Qi. Vibrations, electrical sensation etc. Particularly in extremedies. Nothing malevolent or nerve problem related. If you know the feeling you know the feeling.

The next day mood consistently dropped with intense fleeting moments of apathy and despair that made microdosing not a worthwhile longterm pursuit.





I believe Donald E Teeters mention of amanita in sour milk aswell as the possibility of fermented amanita ie mushroom mead need to be looked at much more seriously.

I have a feeling heat may play into this effect in some way. I have not experimented enough to really know. If in doubt, go without. Apple cider vinegar should produce the effect in the right quantities without heating, though I would personally go with lactic acid powder any day over ACV. I tried eating some pasteurised yoghurt after making regular lemon tech style microdose tea. I didn't notice much.




That's my story! I was so excited to find the forum as I've been meaning to tell the world about this discovery but didn't quite know how or where to do so.

Please post your experiences

Thank you!

Requesting we be more accurate in our claims. If you're claiming a completely new active, pls cite your sources. This is a science based forum. Getting competely different feelings and results is highly interesting and this discussion of lactic acid highly relevant and IS backed by science. It's discussed in the Austin Patent and in the Compendium. Further decarb is obtained through lactobacillus bacteria when done naturally and your assumptions are backed by the science behind it. This gives the most complete decarb we can find scientifically.
There is a lot of discussion on historical use in milk and letting it go bad somewhat, then consuming it. It's a fascinating conversation and one I am making a video on especially since the roundtable with Austin recently. The science on this exists and it's real and it's interesting to get use info like this.
Keep it coming but pls keep your claims accurate.
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