Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:23 am

11/4/21 Update - Just started two new 1L SOMABUCHA batches with 15g dried Lithuanian A. Regalis and 20g dried Lithuania A. Muscaria. Made a slight change from the V1 recipe - used 200mL fresh starter tea from an acidified normal kombucha batch, and 100mL of SCOBY from a previous SOMABUCHA batch. I did not want the starter tea to have any actives from previous batches that would muddy the effect of new batches. Hoping the larger amount of bacteria / slightly lower pH at the start will increase the decarb %. Will post some updates with first trials around the 14 day mark.

I am thinking about starting a sugar kombucha SCOBY to see if I can get faster decarb, just need to figure out how to evenly heat a 1L batch to 86F with precision. Then figuring out a way to cultivate / introduce high decarb L. Brevis - I feel like it may be too late in the season here to source wild bacteria from foraged fruits/leaves. I am thinking maybe lacto-pickle brine or rice water left to ferment?
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:37 am

Found these brewing articles which may be helpful for isolating + culturing wild Lactobacillus with modifications:

https://www.fivebladesbrewing.com/optim ... us-growth/

https://www.fivebladesbrewing.com/lacto ... ter-guide/
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:41 pm

11/21/21 Update: Bottled the Lithuanian A. Muscaria and A. Regalis SOMABUCHA batches at the 14 day mark. The modifications to the V1 recipe (200ml starter tea, 100mL SCOBY) sped up the decarb rate noticeably, with acidification also occurring at a faster rate. I still need to take pH readings of the completed batches, and will update the thread with that.

I started another SOMABUCHA batch yesterday with 25g dried Canadian Amanita Muscaria var. Guessowii (quickly becoming my favorite Amanita species/subspecies). I also made two modifcations from the V1 recipe. Based on the last batch, I increased the amount of Amanita SCOBY to 200mL and kept the amount of fresh non-Amanita starter tea at 200mL. Hoping this will speed up decarb rates even further.

I also used raw honey and did not heat the honey to allow the dormant wild bacteria from the honey to be added to the brew. I'm hoping this will introduce some wild Lactobacillus from the bees and flowers that are even more effective decarboxylators.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned starting a sugar kombucha culture for decarb since the ideal temperature range of many Lactobacillus species (specifically L. Brevis) is closer to the temperature range of sugar kombucha (75F-85F). However, after some research, it looks like honey is a better food for Lactobacillus than sugar, and as a result should lead to higher Lactobacillus populations and higher levels of decarb.

Stimulatory effect of honey on multiplication of lactic acid bacteria under in vitro and in vivo conditions
https://sfamjournals.onlinelibrary.wile ... m%3Apubmed
" The effect of honey and sucrose on lactic acid bacteria in vitro and in rat gut was studied to determine whether these organisms were affected differently by honey compared with sucrose. Under in vitro conditions, the number of Lactobacillus acidophilus and Lactobacillus plantarum counts increased 10-100 fold in the presence of honey compared with sucrose. Feeding of honey to rats also resulted in significant increase in counts of lactic acid bacteria."
Based on this, I will now try to adapt a honey kombucha culture to a higher temperature range (85F ideally) and see if it is a faster/more effective decarboxylator vs. 70F in side by side experiments using the same recipe + Amanita base tea.
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:29 pm

11/27/21 Update: The A. Muscaria var Guessowii SOMABUCHA batch has been fermenting for 7 days now and the SCOBY definitely formed at a faster rate with the extra 100mL - it is approximately 5-6mm thick now - last batch was 2-3mm around this same time. Seeing more bubbles than the last batch, which is a sign of increased microbial activity - not sure how much of that is the additional SCOBY or the raw honey. I tried 5mL tonight and its acidic, but there's still some residual sweetness. It's not fully decarbed, but there's significantly more MUS than IBO at this point. I will let it go for another 3 days and see what the acidity / decarb level is like. It may be decarbing slightly faster than the last batch, but there wasn't as much of a difference as there was between the last batch and the V1 kombucha recipe.
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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:20 pm

12/11/21 Update: I bottled the A. Muscaria var. Guessowii batch at 14 days and it had a similar level of decarb as the the Lithuanian A. Muscaria and A. Regalis batches. So what that tells me is that increasing the level of SCOBY does not increase the rate or level of decarb. This lines up with what we know about the bacteria that form the pellicle on top of kombucha - they are not Lactobacillus, they are various species of acetic acid producing bacteria. This also confirms that the Lactobacillus are primarily present in the acidified starter tea.

I will start another batch of A. Muscaria var. Guessowii kombucha using the same recipe, dried mushrooms, and raw honey, but decrease the SCOBY to 150mL and increase the acidified starter tea to 300mL to further test this hypothesis.

This has also gotten me thinking about creating a starter tea with the maximum amount of Lactobacillus and the minimimum amount of yeast, while still containing the acetic acid bacteria that are the base of the whole symbiotic culture. An ideal SOMABUCHA system would then consist of 3 ongoing brews:

1) SOMABUCHA, brew for producing SOMABUCHA
2) SCOBY Hotel, brew for producing/preserving SCOBY, where SCOBY from previous SOMABUCHA brews are kept along with some SOMABUCHA starter tea to provide enough liquid for the culture to survive/reproduce. The purpose of this is to have a base culture that is adapted to eating Amanita tea and preserve the microbes from batch to batch. It will need to be cleaned out periodically to keep yeast populations down and the resulting liquid would also be psychoactive (and potent). It would be fed with a mixture of fresh non-Amanita starter tea (or Amanita starter tea if you have some to spare) and leftovers from previous acidified SOMABUCHA batches.
3) Starter Tea, brew for producing starter tea, where kombucha using the SOMABUCHA SCOBY is brewed to high acidity and specifically to have high populations of high decarb Lactobacillus. This is the part I most need to focus my efforts on going forward. So far I have used the dormant microbes in raw honey to supplement the microbial population of my SOMABUCHA, but I will be trying many more potential Lactobacillus sources (grain water, wild fruits/leaves, pickle brine, other raw honeys, etc)

There's also the possibility of combining the SCOBY hotel and starter tea brews for a 2 brew system if you only plan on fermenting one type of Amanita and/or don't care about mixed effects between batches.

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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:41 pm

1/5/21 Update : Today I started a new 1L somabucha batch with 25g of US A. Muscaria var. Guessowii. I kept the recipe the same from the last batch, with two exceptions - this time I used 150mL of somabucha SCOBY from my somabucha SCOBY hotel and 300mL of acidified starter tea from my non-Amanita kombucha batch. Hopefully this will result in faster decarboxylation since the Lactobacillusare primarily contained in the starter tea, not the SCOBY pellicle itself.

I have been busy over the holidays so I have not done further experiments with creating high decarb Lactobacillus starter tea for kombucha, but that will be my amateur Amanita research focus moving in to the new year. Once I have figured out ideal (or close to ideal) working ratios of starter tea / SCOBY for max decarb I will start a new thread with my V2 recipe so there is a dedicated thread for discussing somabucha and more space in this thread to discuss other Lactobacillus ferment based decarb procedures.

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Re: Derek And David's Vegan Conversion Thread

Post by lostmushroomforest » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:05 pm

1/15/21 Update: This the healthiest ferment so far. SCOBY formation was at the same rate as last batch, and there were a lot of bubbles around the edge of the SCOBY. Itried ~20mL last night (at 9 days of fermentation) and there was a small amount of ibotenic acid feeling but it was mostly a muscimol feeling - very pleasant and potent. I think I will use this recipe as the base for the V2 recipe.

One strange thing about this brew is that the starter brew was yellowish since it was extracted from A. Muscaria var. Guessowii, but after 10 days it is a bright red orange. I have seen some color shifts in somabucha brews before, but nothing this dramatic. It is unlikely that this is contamination by a mold that produces red pigment because it would be a distinct pinkish red color and mold contamination is almost impossible in healthy batches like this. A more likely explanation is that the mixed microbial culture is doing something to the pigments - perhaps converting Guesowii's muscoflavins/musca-aurins to muscarubins?

I have been thinking more about the ideal batch system, and for convenience I have settled on a two-brew system instead of the three-brew system previously mentioned - one active somabucha brew and a combined SCOBY / starter tea brew. In this system I will fully drain all the Amanita containing liquid from the SCOBY before adding to the brew to prevent cross-contamination of actives between batches. It should remain at a consistent acidity (ideal for Lactobacillus growth) and new raw honey containing base tea should be added after you start a new somabucha brew.

When it warms up I will set up some micro-brews (250mL) for isolating/cultivating experimental batches of high decarb Lactobacillus starter tea.

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