Why decarb if fleece is mold/mucor and not amanita?

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maranello551
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Why decarb if fleece is mold/mucor and not amanita?

Post by maranello551 » Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:03 pm

If it’s not amanita mycelium, why are we decarboxylating the wine/bread once fleece is grown out?

Is it strangely coincidentally a different mold which produces the same active compound as psychoactive amanitas? Seems very unlikely…..why is this done?

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fantanyl
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Re: Why decarb if fleece is mold/mucor and not amanita?

Post by fantanyl » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:27 pm

this is a very good question,
as far as i know there is no evidence what actives the fleece produces,
in this thread i recently tried to extend the theory it could be a similar compound like ibotenic acid which could be decarboxylized in the same way.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=35&start=80
there is still a lot to do to clear up all the secrets of the fleece, but there is also a lot of great work already done, also check out the other threads in this fleece section of the forum if interestet in this topic

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Re: Why decarb if fleece is mold/mucor and not amanita?

Post by Dbcooper » Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:53 pm

I don't know but let me share some of my ignorance, it may point you to the right tree to bark up to.

Decarboxylations happen thought quite a few different reactions. They can happen through various biosynthesis processes (the plant does it), in the kitchen, and in the lab through complex interactions. All involve the removal of a carboxyl group which turns the IA into musimol. The plants cheat through enzymes that catalyze the transformation. In the kitchen we cheat adding heat, which promotes some compound in the mushroom to more readily steal the carboxyl group. In the lab, to have a more pure conversion or because the source material lacks a catalyst (the bit to steal the carboxyl group) labs run it through all sorts of chemical processes that includes the catalysts.

I don't know what enzyme or catalyst is doing the work on kitchen ecarboxylation under heat. As I said there are various ways it happen. Amanita and that other one you mention may only have heat in common but each using a different catalyst.

maranello551
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Re: Why decarb if fleece is mold/mucor and not amanita?

Post by maranello551 » Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:26 pm

Right, but I’m saying it’s highly unlikely, in my ignorant.opinion, that if the fleece is another life fork altogether rather than amanita, that the new compound responsible for the psychoactivity is still IA/muscimol.

With this in mind I would fail to see why invitro decarboxylation would be necessary at all….

Has anybody here confirmed what the active fleece actually is?

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Re: Why decarb if fleece is mold/mucor and not amanita?

Post by Dbcooper » Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:43 am

I was assuming that whatever you were talking about contained ibonetic acid. If you don't know what it has there is no point guessing unless you find somebody that has done the chemical analysts. Take Brugmansia arborea, the active ingredient hyoscine is a potent hallucinogen that unlike psilocybin it can actually kill you. Guessing whay something is by how it feels is a very bad idea.

Also decarbolization is not just to convert ibonetic acid; it removes a carbon atom from a carbon chain converting one compound into another. My guess is that whatever is that you are applying kitchen chemistry to does that, creating the compound you seek. Whatever it may be.

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