The Missing Ingredient

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DanTian
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The Missing Ingredient

Post by DanTian » Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:46 am

May this post inspire others and help uncover the mysteries of amanita.. regardless of how badly it agesthese are my thoughts at the moment. god knows it'll be different next season


I made a post a while back (zopphire) about lactic acid changing amanita etc. No surpsises, I was wrong.

I still think there probably is another compound in amanita which I'll explain, but lactic acid is not that magic ingredient, perhaps unsurpsingly.. The catalyst seems to exist in the human body and in ferments. Probably an enzyme, who knows. Personally I think it's more then just decarboxylation of ibotanic acid to muscimol by bacteria.

It's heartening to see the discussion and exploration seeded through that orignal post a year or so back now. It seems some people read it and acted on it.
These are my thoughts since then

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Re: The Missing Ingredient

Post by DanTian » Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:51 am

SOMA

I came to the same conclusion, as AMdreamer a while back about soma. definitely yogurt; whey containing amanita separated by fleece.

I haven't seen anyone talk about the whole pressing with stones part of the rig veda and thought I'd mention this post from honest-food.net/polish-mushrooms-recipe/. Traditionally made with some less edible/more toxic varieties in eastern Europe

"You basically salt down the mushrooms with garlic and other spices, then put a plate over them and weigh it down.
Doing this squashes the mushrooms and that, combined with the salt, pulls out their water and forms a brine.
They then ferment for a week or two before you eat them."

So we have the references to milk, separation of curd and whey with fleece, also have an understanding of pressing
the juice. note they are probably pressing raw mushroom. Then there's all the references to color in the rig veda. Note whey is green (alchemy, green lion eating the sun..) and the amanita stains the milk a tawny color referenced in the hymns. note also that the mushrooms often oxidize purple when soaked due to vanadium content.

read it for yourself here
https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rvi08.htm

soaking raw mushroom in a fermented liquid, pasteurized or not may be enough.
Last edited by DanTian on Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Missing Ingredient

Post by DanTian » Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:09 pm

STILLNESS - THE MISSING INGREDIENT

In my experiences either mixing amanita with a fermented substance or looping urine, there was something more, other, beyond. Something more profound and unique. I found myself drawn to seated stillness practice (meditation) and the experiences transformed each time. Something else emerged from the drunkenness in proportion to the level of stillness and release.

The rapid movement of something through the body in a patterned way that causes a drunkenness can be transformed into profound stillness. If you experience this and sit, you will find it's trying to reach equilibrium. I experience it like a particle tilted into motion by disharmony in the body/mind. It seems to move rapidly through the body via a repeating pattern in waves. Each time remedying the tension and lack of ease resulting in profound stillness.

If you aren't very familiar with the meditative traditions you probably will miss the significance of this. These traditions are by their nature not easy to grasp even for those who dedicate their lives to them full time. I find the experience aligns with my limited understanding of their teachings and essence immaculately well. uncannily well.

The result of this stillness in my very subjective experience is a certain "spiritual substance" that builds up and persists in the body/mind after the amanita has left the body. Profound and difficult to describe.

Amanita I believe, has had a dramatic influence within the religions of the world and may well have a part to play in
the origins of many of them. if you haven't looked into the mythological side of amanita yet, I highly recommend
doing so.

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Re: The Missing Ingredient

Post by DanTian » Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:27 pm

MUSACRINE


Smell the dried mushroom caps.
Fish. they smell like fish. like musk.

Muscarine mimics acetylcholine, a nuerotransmitter. they are almost identical Like LSD and Serotonin. In fact some cobinations of cholinergics remind me of amanita in feel. Choline the nutrient oxidises to a chemical (tmao) that also smells just like fish. so does betaine a metabolite of choline. these chemicals are closely related. *Musc*arine, I would bet, with it's almost identical chemical structure smells like fish too. It's probably responsible for the smell.

Notice the smell strengthen significantly with drying and doesn't really affect the stypes of the mushroom.

A wonderful man named Mark Niemoeller, a member of the AMANITA MUSCARIA. EXPERIMENTAL PREPARATION FORMULAS facebook group (he may run it, not sure) believes The Stypes and A. Pantherina DO NOT contain any muscarine. He also states that drying the caps significantly increases the quantity of muscarine. he believes muscarine from dried/badly dried caps often produces the symptoms commonly assigned to ibotanic acid like sweating and excess salivation. According to Mark muscarine can reach clinical toxicity levels in big doses over 10grams particularly when dried caps are used.

He has many posts on the mythology of the stype of amanita as opposed to the caps of the mushrooms.

Play around with the ratio of stypes to caps and dried vs fresh caps. I'm a believer.. I have taken large doses
of stypes as tea and find myself missing the cholinergic feeling of the small amount of muscarine. I've also had many overpowering and unpleasant muscarine experiences when I was younger.

Note small percentages add up with a chemical as potent as muscarine. material analyzed may fresh & whole as opposed to
dried caps as many people are taking.

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Re: The Missing Ingredient

Post by Arktos » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:53 am

I am interested in the way to press and ferment fresh caps with salt. How do I do that in a safe way? And how much salt to use, like when fermenting cabbage, is it the same method?
Arktos in my case refers to the bear, nothing else.

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Re: The Missing Ingredient

Post by DanTian » Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:47 am

https://honest-food.net/polish-mushrooms-recipe/

I imagine it would be similar to other lactofermented vegetables in regards to salt content. Maybe throw a bit of saurkraute juice in there for good measure as a starter

I would imagine the degradation of muscimol and ibotanic acid would be accelerated in acidic water containing microbes. They certainly do degrade over time under normal conditions. I wonder if the same can be said for muscarine. Ratios of muscarine to muscimol may be much more significant then we think. This is where my investigation is currently headed

Good luck!!

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